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The article talks about the plausibility according to linguistics while entirely ignoring the reality according to toxicology. Occam's razor suggests that he s

The article talks about the plausibility according to linguistics while entirely ignoring the reality according to toxicology. Occam's razor suggests that he said "I ate too many drugs" because that is the logical thing for someone to say if they were panicking that they overdosed

nkurz 5y ago
I disagree. I think a simpler explanation is that someone being arrested would continue to deny having done anything illegal. While it may be true that he "ate too many drugs", and it's not impossible that he would suddenly speak the truth, it's far from "logical" to spontaneously confess an illegal act to an arresting officer. Even if Occam suggests preferring the simplest explanation, logic would suggest preferring the self-interested explanation, even if this is a lie. Responding to your other comment here to keep things compact, I also disagree with your statement that the author of the article believes "I ain't do no drugs" is acceptable English. What he claims, apparently as an expert, is that the grammar of this phrase fits a standard pattern in the particular dialect known as African American English (AAE). Given the relatively flawless academic English of the article, I'm almost certain the author distinguishes what is standard in AAE from what is acceptable in (unmodified) English. That said, your personal experience of hearing the phrase "I ate too many drugs" is a very useful datapoint, and does undercut this part of the authors argument.
- washadjeffmad 5y ago
  "I ain't done no drugs" or "I ain't doin ne drugs" are still uncompelling. People, especially those used to constant policing, aren't so afraid of the them that they wouldn't tell them they needed medical help. When you're used to the police, you behave a certain way around them, but it's not fear of authority. There's wariness, but you know what the police, at least the ones you know, are there for and what they do. It's not just blind fear and animosity. Wealthy people are worried about their credit and what probation would mean for their reputations and careers and would do anything to avoid engaging with the court and criminal justice systems. When you have no expectation of generational wealth, when engagement with the system is the norm and none of this is new to you, your family, or anyone you know, you don't worry about maintaining plausible deniability or not giving police evidence. You're in, your out, that's life. I don't think anyone who doesn't already understand what that's like would be able to model how someone could possibly do something that wasn't in their best interest like tell a police officer they're about to OD.
  - Ar-Curunir 5y ago
    The fuck? If you know the police routinely kills Black men, any reasonable person would be afraid of them.
    - Leparamour 5y ago
      >If you know the police routinely kills Black men, any reasonable person would be afraid of them. If you know Black men routinely kill police officers, any reasonable person would be afraid of them.
      - Ar-Curunir 5y ago
        If police seek out and engage black people violently at higher rates than they do people of other races, then it's natural that their deaths at the hands of black folks will be higher. Also, seems that over half of police deaths are accidents: https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-release... So maybe try to back up your racism in facts next time?
  - codyb 5y ago
    This seems to assume a lot and generalize very broadly. It’s entirely plausible someone would deny doing something illegal while being placed under arrest.
- grumpyautist 5y ago
  Someone fearing overdose isn't likely to lie, they would worry more about dying. Havingg drugs in your system isn't particularly illegal beyond a ticket for PI.
tom_mellior 5y ago
Occam's razor suggests that if you start panicking while you are being murdered by the police, what you're panicking about is being murdered by the police, not a sudden realization that you may have overdosed. In this context, denying drug use seems plausible to me.
- makomk 5y ago
  As I understand it, the problem with that argument is that he started panicking and saying he couldn't breathe well before the police officer who supposedly murdered him took the action that supposedly did so.
  - p49k 5y ago
    At the beginning of the stop he disclosed several issues that would lead to extreme anxiety and panic attacks, which cause difficulty breathing, including previous trauma associated with police and claustrophobia. The fact that he also couldn't breathe before he was being suffocated by police doesn't mean he lied. (And of course it goes without saying that even if he did lie, it doesn't justify being murdered).
    - grumpyautist 5y ago
      He wasn't sufficated by the police either. The autopsy didn't show trauma or death by asphyxiation.
      - tom_mellior 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd#Autopsies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd#Autops... references two autopsies, one of which 'found that Floyd's heart stopped while he was being restrained and that his death was a homicide caused by "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression"', the other 'found that Floyd's death was a homicide caused by asphyxia due to neck and back compression.'.

nkurz 5y ago

I disagree. I think a simpler explanation is that someone being arrested would continue to deny having done anything illegal. While it may be true that he "ate too many drugs", and it's not impossible that he would suddenly speak the truth, it's far from "logical" to spontaneously confess an illegal act to an arresting officer. Even if Occam suggests preferring the simplest explanation, logic would suggest preferring the self-interested explanation, even if this is a lie. Responding to your other comment here to keep things compact, I also disagree with your statement that the author of the article believes "I ain't do no drugs" is acceptable English. What he claims, apparently as an expert, is that the grammar of this phrase fits a standard pattern in the particular dialect known as African American English (AAE). Given the relatively flawless academic English of the article, I'm almost certain the author distinguishes what is standard in AAE from what is acceptable in (unmodified) English. That said, your personal experience of hearing the phrase "I ate too many drugs" is a very useful datapoint, and does undercut this part of the authors argument.

washadjeffmad 5y ago
"I ain't done no drugs" or "I ain't doin ne drugs" are still uncompelling. People, especially those used to constant policing, aren't so afraid of the them that they wouldn't tell them they needed medical help. When you're used to the police, you behave a certain way around them, but it's not fear of authority. There's wariness, but you know what the police, at least the ones you know, are there for and what they do. It's not just blind fear and animosity. Wealthy people are worried about their credit and what probation would mean for their reputations and careers and would do anything to avoid engaging with the court and criminal justice systems. When you have no expectation of generational wealth, when engagement with the system is the norm and none of this is new to you, your family, or anyone you know, you don't worry about maintaining plausible deniability or not giving police evidence. You're in, your out, that's life. I don't think anyone who doesn't already understand what that's like would be able to model how someone could possibly do something that wasn't in their best interest like tell a police officer they're about to OD.
- Ar-Curunir 5y ago
  The fuck? If you know the police routinely kills Black men, any reasonable person would be afraid of them.
  - Leparamour 5y ago
    >If you know the police routinely kills Black men, any reasonable person would be afraid of them. If you know Black men routinely kill police officers, any reasonable person would be afraid of them.
    - Ar-Curunir 5y ago
      If police seek out and engage black people violently at higher rates than they do people of other races, then it's natural that their deaths at the hands of black folks will be higher. Also, seems that over half of police deaths are accidents: https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-release... So maybe try to back up your racism in facts next time?
- codyb 5y ago
  This seems to assume a lot and generalize very broadly. It’s entirely plausible someone would deny doing something illegal while being placed under arrest.
grumpyautist 5y ago
Someone fearing overdose isn't likely to lie, they would worry more about dying. Havingg drugs in your system isn't particularly illegal beyond a ticket for PI.

tom_mellior 5y ago

Occam's razor suggests that if you start panicking while you are being murdered by the police, what you're panicking about is being murdered by the police, not a sudden realization that you may have overdosed. In this context, denying drug use seems plausible to me.

makomk 5y ago
As I understand it, the problem with that argument is that he started panicking and saying he couldn't breathe well before the police officer who supposedly murdered him took the action that supposedly did so.
- p49k 5y ago
  At the beginning of the stop he disclosed several issues that would lead to extreme anxiety and panic attacks, which cause difficulty breathing, including previous trauma associated with police and claustrophobia. The fact that he also couldn't breathe before he was being suffocated by police doesn't mean he lied. (And of course it goes without saying that even if he did lie, it doesn't justify being murdered).
  - grumpyautist 5y ago
    He wasn't sufficated by the police either. The autopsy didn't show trauma or death by asphyxiation.
    - tom_mellior 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd#Autopsies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd#Autops... references two autopsies, one of which 'found that Floyd's heart stopped while he was being restrained and that his death was a homicide caused by "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression"', the other 'found that Floyd's death was a homicide caused by asphyxia due to neck and back compression.'.