4 ms·

That's not really true. They act on GABA, which is the main inhibitory neurotransmitter throughout the central nervous system. So one of the effects is muscle r

by dimal 6y ago

That's not really true. They act on GABA, which is the main inhibitory neurotransmitter throughout the central nervous system. So one of the effects is muscle relaxation, but that's only part of their effect.

h0l0cube 6y ago
Maybe it's not strictly true, but got this from Robert Sapolsky (Stanford neurobiology professor): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOnSbDSaOw&list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D&index=16&t=4715s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOnSbDSaOw&list=PL848F2368C... His opinion, or the best understandings on this, might have changed though. From the YT transcript: > Here's somebody taking Valium for anxiety, and here's somebody taking Valium to relax their muscles. What's up with that? It's the exact same thing. And it is a very James-Lange moment. What's part of anxiety about? It's monitoring the level of tension in your body. It's getting feedback from muscle tone. He seems to be suggesting that the mode of action for Valium to reduce anxiety is that of reducing muscle tone. Not an expert, so I can't argue about it.
- nvrspyx 6y ago
  Going off of the quoted bit because I haven't watched the video, he isn't necessarily suggesting that is the mode of action, just that the mechanism of Valium does both. The mention of GABA enhancement from the comment above alludes to that. Behavior and attitude can influence each other. For example, happiness makes you smile, but smiling can also make you happy (to some degree). The same works for anxiety in which your mental anxiety can make you physically anxious and vice versa. What he is suggesting here, especially considering the James-Lange mention, is that Valium's mode of action is targeting the behavior side of things for anxiety, but does not exclude it from influencing more than just muscle tension. I think the general consensus in psychology is that it's neither the mental state nor the physical state (James-Lange) that create emotion, but rather both. Both can instigate responses from each other. Valium simply influences part of the CNS to affect both, but because it's a drug, it inherently affects the "physical state" more directly. Normal muscle relaxants aren't as effective for anxiety as Valium because they don't have any action on the central nervous system, just the neuromuscular mechanisms. Valium does much more than simply relax muscles. It affects GABA throughout the whole body.
  - h0l0cube 6y ago
    > Normal muscle relaxants aren't as effective for anxiety as Valium because they don't have any action on the central nervous system, just the neuromuscular mechanisms. Valium does much more than simply relax muscles. It affects GABA throughout the whole body. Thanks for clarifying on this. A lot of people seem to think it's okay to just down-vote without providing some sort of counterpoint. I might be naive on a topic, but that's an opportunity to correct, not punish.
    - nvrspyx 6y ago
      Agreed. I'm of the stance that I only downvote trolling or absurd claims without any form of supporting details. Otherwise, I prefer to take the route of elaborating/correcting/questioning/etc even if I'm not an expert on the subject because then it at least fosters a discussion and sets up a path for shorter corrective comments from those that don't have the time/motivation/energy to respond in more detail.
      - h0l0cube 6y ago
        I rarely make the mistake of speaking with certainty about something I'm not sure of, so I guess the down votes were warranted. But I am surprised that a tenured professor at an elite university would be so wrong in his area of expertise. A cursory googling shows that there has been some decent research on muscle relaxation as a mechanism to reduce anxiety, though I concede that Diazepam probably has higher order effects that compound is efficacy: https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=muscle+relaxation+anxiety&btnG= https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=m...
taneq 6y ago
Side note, alcohol also does things with GABA and that (plus its easy availability) is probably why so many people self-medicate with it for anxiety-type issues.
- tluyben2 6y ago
  Yes, and that is a very bad idea as it often makes it much worse over time. Many people I have talked to who were or are drinkers, talked about their hangover as a certain weird feeling they can only stop by drinking. When asked a more detailed description, they describe full blown anxiety attacks. And they need more and more drink to stop them. I got many people to see a doctor and to stop drinking to attack anxiety that way. Liver damage apparently also makes it worse so... There are hard alcoholics who probably have this too but they also have physical withdrawel which is a much more difficult path; most people I mentioned above were having a few drinks per day to not feel like dying from this 'hangover' and could stop the same day without withdrawel (using alprazolam and therapy for instance). Someone did the same for me a long time ago and I am very thankful for that still so I try to do it as well when I see possible sufferers. It is pretty crazy how little people know about it still, but they do light up when I describe all their symptoms.
  - taneq 6y ago
    Oh, I'm not saying alcohol is a perfect fix for anxiety issues by any means! Just that there are a bunch of mental states that people quite legitimately try to escape by any means necessary and that could probably be helped way more with appropriate psychiatric care.

by dimal 6y ago

h0l0cube 6y ago

Maybe it's not strictly true, but got this from Robert Sapolsky (Stanford neurobiology professor): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOnSbDSaOw&list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D&index=16&t=4715s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOnSbDSaOw&list=PL848F2368C... His opinion, or the best understandings on this, might have changed though. From the YT transcript: > Here's somebody taking Valium for anxiety, and here's somebody taking Valium to relax their muscles. What's up with that? It's the exact same thing. And it is a very James-Lange moment. What's part of anxiety about? It's monitoring the level of tension in your body. It's getting feedback from muscle tone. He seems to be suggesting that the mode of action for Valium to reduce anxiety is that of reducing muscle tone. Not an expert, so I can't argue about it.

nvrspyx 6y ago
Going off of the quoted bit because I haven't watched the video, he isn't necessarily suggesting that is the mode of action, just that the mechanism of Valium does both. The mention of GABA enhancement from the comment above alludes to that. Behavior and attitude can influence each other. For example, happiness makes you smile, but smiling can also make you happy (to some degree). The same works for anxiety in which your mental anxiety can make you physically anxious and vice versa. What he is suggesting here, especially considering the James-Lange mention, is that Valium's mode of action is targeting the behavior side of things for anxiety, but does not exclude it from influencing more than just muscle tension. I think the general consensus in psychology is that it's neither the mental state nor the physical state (James-Lange) that create emotion, but rather both. Both can instigate responses from each other. Valium simply influences part of the CNS to affect both, but because it's a drug, it inherently affects the "physical state" more directly. Normal muscle relaxants aren't as effective for anxiety as Valium because they don't have any action on the central nervous system, just the neuromuscular mechanisms. Valium does much more than simply relax muscles. It affects GABA throughout the whole body.
- h0l0cube 6y ago
  > Normal muscle relaxants aren't as effective for anxiety as Valium because they don't have any action on the central nervous system, just the neuromuscular mechanisms. Valium does much more than simply relax muscles. It affects GABA throughout the whole body. Thanks for clarifying on this. A lot of people seem to think it's okay to just down-vote without providing some sort of counterpoint. I might be naive on a topic, but that's an opportunity to correct, not punish.
  - nvrspyx 6y ago
    Agreed. I'm of the stance that I only downvote trolling or absurd claims without any form of supporting details. Otherwise, I prefer to take the route of elaborating/correcting/questioning/etc even if I'm not an expert on the subject because then it at least fosters a discussion and sets up a path for shorter corrective comments from those that don't have the time/motivation/energy to respond in more detail.
    - h0l0cube 6y ago
      I rarely make the mistake of speaking with certainty about something I'm not sure of, so I guess the down votes were warranted. But I am surprised that a tenured professor at an elite university would be so wrong in his area of expertise. A cursory googling shows that there has been some decent research on muscle relaxation as a mechanism to reduce anxiety, though I concede that Diazepam probably has higher order effects that compound is efficacy: https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=muscle+relaxation+anxiety&btnG= https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=m...

taneq 6y ago

Side note, alcohol also does things with GABA and that (plus its easy availability) is probably why so many people self-medicate with it for anxiety-type issues.

tluyben2 6y ago
Yes, and that is a very bad idea as it often makes it much worse over time. Many people I have talked to who were or are drinkers, talked about their hangover as a certain weird feeling they can only stop by drinking. When asked a more detailed description, they describe full blown anxiety attacks. And they need more and more drink to stop them. I got many people to see a doctor and to stop drinking to attack anxiety that way. Liver damage apparently also makes it worse so... There are hard alcoholics who probably have this too but they also have physical withdrawel which is a much more difficult path; most people I mentioned above were having a few drinks per day to not feel like dying from this 'hangover' and could stop the same day without withdrawel (using alprazolam and therapy for instance). Someone did the same for me a long time ago and I am very thankful for that still so I try to do it as well when I see possible sufferers. It is pretty crazy how little people know about it still, but they do light up when I describe all their symptoms.
- taneq 6y ago
  Oh, I'm not saying alcohol is a perfect fix for anxiety issues by any means! Just that there are a bunch of mental states that people quite legitimately try to escape by any means necessary and that could probably be helped way more with appropriate psychiatric care.