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> The "legacy financial system" is far, FAR more energy efficient in comparison. Citation needed. The legacy financial system has a huge infrastructure behind

> The "legacy financial system" is far, FAR more energy efficient in comparison. Citation needed. The legacy financial system has a huge infrastructure behind it to secure and maintain it (buildings, transport, security, ...). I would assume the US Petrodollar alone probably exceeds Bitcoin's consumption of resources (I don't have any sources though). > Even Bitcoin Cash, which copies the same stupid design is a more attractive option due to that they increased the block size limit. BCH is a scam. Not because they assume that the removal of the block size limit comes without any costs, but because it regularly splits after influential but narcissistic 'leaders' attempt to grab more power and because its community continues to justify deceitful tactics to promote BCH and trick people into buying BCH when they expected Bitcoin. In fact, the lie that BCH is more energy efficient than Bitcoin is just that, another BCH advertising lie. Energy consumption is a function of block reward only (mined coins + tx fees). Currently miners are rewarded ~$400K for Bitcoin and ~6K for BCH. BCH would consume exactly as much energy as Bitcoin if BCH's prices or number of transactions would rise accordingly.

analog31 6y ago
Ah, but until demonstrated otherwise, the legacy financial system also supports Bitcoin. It's what makes it possible to create the goods and services that people want to buy with Bitcoins, and the electricity to do the computations. We don't even know what society would look like without our present-day economic infrastructure. For now, the cost of Bitcoin is on top of the cost of the existing system, not instead of it.
- frankenst1 6y ago
  > For now, the cost of Bitcoin is on top of the cost of the existing system, not instead of it. You can have a closed loop of exchanging Bitcoin for goods and services without any legacy financial system involved. Just because you prefer to exchange your Bitcoins for your local currency does not imply that the cost of maintaining your local currency should be added on top of Bitcoins own.
  - analog31 6y ago
    Indeed, but we don't know what those goods and services would consist of in the absence of the legacy financial system.
dale_glass 6y ago
> Citation needed. A BTC transaction is currently estimated to take 821 kWh. That's ridiculous. > BCH is a scam. Not because they assume that the removal of the block size limit comes without any costs, but because it regularly splits after influential but narcissistic 'leaders' attempt to grab more power and because its community continues to justify deceitful tactics to promote BCH and trick people into buying BCH when they expected Bitcoin. I don't care about any of that, actually. I'm mercilessly meritocratic in this regard, and in my case, merit == processing transactions at a low cost. Whatever nonsense goes on in the community, the drama regarding branding or whatnot isn't of my concern. My interest in crypto is extremely minor and focused straight on the "cash" type of usage. Whoever can provide that earns my interest, and I hold no loyalty whatsoever. BTC had my interest back before it bumped into the block limit, and at that exact instant, lost it.
- frankenst1 6y ago
  > A BTC transaction is currently estimated to take 821 kWh. That's ridiculous. It is huge, I agree. But ridiculous in comparison to what? How much energy/CO2 does the traditional financial system consume/produce (incl. buildings, production, transport, security)? >> BCH is a scam. > I don't care about any of that, actually. I'm mercilessly meritocratic in this regard, and in my case, merit == processing transactions at a low cost. My interest in crypto is extremely minor. If you don't care about the details and your interest in crypto is extremely minor it is super risky to put any money in an altcoin like BCH or to advertise it without a disclaimer. You are more likely to lose value because - a) it has low security (a collusion of only 0.5% of Bitcoin miners can perform a 51% attack on BCH) - b) the community and their 'leaders' continuously lie and mislead the public about BCHs performance, adoption and scalability (e.g. unlimited transactions without degraded decentralization) - c) the coin and the community splits regularly because of power grabs - d) the market's expected value of BCH drops continuously (because of the points mentioned before) The merit you are looking for, "processing many transactions at low cost" is currently not achievable without sacrifices. If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
  - dale_glass 6y ago

analog31 6y ago

Ah, but until demonstrated otherwise, the legacy financial system also supports Bitcoin. It's what makes it possible to create the goods and services that people want to buy with Bitcoins, and the electricity to do the computations. We don't even know what society would look like without our present-day economic infrastructure. For now, the cost of Bitcoin is on top of the cost of the existing system, not instead of it.

frankenst1 6y ago
> For now, the cost of Bitcoin is on top of the cost of the existing system, not instead of it. You can have a closed loop of exchanging Bitcoin for goods and services without any legacy financial system involved. Just because you prefer to exchange your Bitcoins for your local currency does not imply that the cost of maintaining your local currency should be added on top of Bitcoins own.
- analog31 6y ago
  Indeed, but we don't know what those goods and services would consist of in the absence of the legacy financial system.

dale_glass 6y ago

> Citation needed. A BTC transaction is currently estimated to take 821 kWh. That's ridiculous. > BCH is a scam. Not because they assume that the removal of the block size limit comes without any costs, but because it regularly splits after influential but narcissistic 'leaders' attempt to grab more power and because its community continues to justify deceitful tactics to promote BCH and trick people into buying BCH when they expected Bitcoin. I don't care about any of that, actually. I'm mercilessly meritocratic in this regard, and in my case, merit == processing transactions at a low cost. Whatever nonsense goes on in the community, the drama regarding branding or whatnot isn't of my concern. My interest in crypto is extremely minor and focused straight on the "cash" type of usage. Whoever can provide that earns my interest, and I hold no loyalty whatsoever. BTC had my interest back before it bumped into the block limit, and at that exact instant, lost it.

frankenst1 6y ago
> A BTC transaction is currently estimated to take 821 kWh. That's ridiculous. It is huge, I agree. But ridiculous in comparison to what? How much energy/CO2 does the traditional financial system consume/produce (incl. buildings, production, transport, security)? >> BCH is a scam. > I don't care about any of that, actually. I'm mercilessly meritocratic in this regard, and in my case, merit == processing transactions at a low cost. My interest in crypto is extremely minor. If you don't care about the details and your interest in crypto is extremely minor it is super risky to put any money in an altcoin like BCH or to advertise it without a disclaimer. You are more likely to lose value because - a) it has low security (a collusion of only 0.5% of Bitcoin miners can perform a 51% attack on BCH) - b) the community and their 'leaders' continuously lie and mislead the public about BCHs performance, adoption and scalability (e.g. unlimited transactions without degraded decentralization) - c) the coin and the community splits regularly because of power grabs - d) the market's expected value of BCH drops continuously (because of the points mentioned before) The merit you are looking for, "processing many transactions at low cost" is currently not achievable without sacrifices. If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
- dale_glass 6y ago