5 ms·

Also seems like a horrible idea to use a custom DSL for the configuration. Just another curveball to throw at you. XML, yaml, toml, json, something else standa

Also seems like a horrible idea to use a custom DSL for the configuration. Just another curveball to throw at you. XML, yaml, toml, json, something else standard and well known would have been nice.

jorams 6y ago
I don't think this criticism makes much sense. XML, yaml, toml or json would replace the current choice of Groovy or Kotlin, but the actual configuration would be just as much of a DSL.
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
  Yeah, a build specification is essentially a DSL.
zmmmmm 6y ago
It's only really "custom" if you don't know Groovy. Plenty of build systems invent a whole custom language for it so it is one step better than those - at least by the time you do learn groovy you have picked up a transferrable skill. I do think that one of the big problems with Gradle is they try to operate under a pretense that you don't need to learn any Groovy to use it. The reality is you can get just far enough to get yourself in trouble and then suddenly you are mired in inexplicable problems, and just start hating the tool.
- saurik 6y ago
  I mean, it is only really NOT "custom" if you have even considered using Groovy for anything other than Gradle; and like, while I remember there were people who seriously thought Groovy was "the future" 15-20 years ago, they were wrong.
  - zmmmmm 6y ago
    I wouldn't agree with that. Custom would imply there's literally only one purpose for the language. Groovy has a lot of relevant applications outside of gradle scripts. It's great for testing any JVM language, the basis of things like Jenkins pipelines, a generally useful extension language to embed in any JVM based software, and a myriad of other potential uses including full application development as a first class JVM language. Just because you personally wouldn't prefer to do those things doesn't change the general nature of what it is.
occz 6y ago
Kotlin is an alternative now, and it's great.

Also seems like a horrible idea to use a custom DSL for the configuration. Just another curveball to throw at you. XML, yaml, toml, json, something else standard and well known would have been nice.

jorams 6y ago

I don't think this criticism makes much sense. XML, yaml, toml or json would replace the current choice of Groovy or Kotlin, but the actual configuration would be just as much of a DSL.

fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
Yeah, a build specification is essentially a DSL.

zmmmmm 6y ago

It's only really "custom" if you don't know Groovy. Plenty of build systems invent a whole custom language for it so it is one step better than those - at least by the time you do learn groovy you have picked up a transferrable skill. I do think that one of the big problems with Gradle is they try to operate under a pretense that you don't need to learn any Groovy to use it. The reality is you can get just far enough to get yourself in trouble and then suddenly you are mired in inexplicable problems, and just start hating the tool.

saurik 6y ago
I mean, it is only really NOT "custom" if you have even considered using Groovy for anything other than Gradle; and like, while I remember there were people who seriously thought Groovy was "the future" 15-20 years ago, they were wrong.
- zmmmmm 6y ago
  I wouldn't agree with that. Custom would imply there's literally only one purpose for the language. Groovy has a lot of relevant applications outside of gradle scripts. It's great for testing any JVM language, the basis of things like Jenkins pipelines, a generally useful extension language to embed in any JVM based software, and a myriad of other potential uses including full application development as a first class JVM language. Just because you personally wouldn't prefer to do those things doesn't change the general nature of what it is.

occz 6y ago

Kotlin is an alternative now, and it's great.