7 ms·

This isn't really new, right? I've heard of this years ago. But it is an amazing project. Instead of emulating, they actually rebuilt the old custom ICs (which

This isn't really new, right? I've heard of this years ago. But it is an amazing project. Instead of emulating, they actually rebuilt the old custom ICs (which 8-bit computers were full of) in an FPGA. Really impressive.

jonny_eh 6y ago
Old projects get reshared many times. It's always new to someone.
tediousdemise 6y ago
Yeah, it really is an amazing application for FPGAs—preserving computing and gaming history. The list of cores available for MiSTer is simply staggering: > Computers - Classic • Acorn Archimedes • Acorn Atom • Alice MC10 • Altair 8800 • Amiga • Amstrad CPC 6128 • Amstrad PCW • ao486 (PC 486) • Apogee • Apple I • Apple II+ • Apple Macintosh Plus • Aquarius • Atari 800XL • Atari ST/STe • BBC Micro B,Master • BK0011M • Color Computer 2, Dragon 32 • Commodore 16, Plus/4 • Commodore 64, Ultimax • Commodore PET • Commodore VIC-20 • DEC PDP-1 • EDSAC • Galaksija • Jupiter Ace • Laser 310 • MSX • MultiComp • Orao • Oric 1 & Atmos • SAM Coupe • Sharp MZ Series • Sinclair QL • Specialist/MX • TI-99/4A • TRS-80 Model 1 • TSConf • Vector 06C • X68000 • ZX Spectrum • ZX Spectrum Next • ZX81 > Consoles - Classic • Astrocade • Atari 2600 • Atari 5200 • Atari Lynx • AY-3-8500 • ColecoVision, SG-1000 • Gameboy, Gameboy Color • Gameboy Advance • Genesis/Megadrive • SMS, Game Gear • MegaCD • NeoGeo • NES • Odyssey2 • SNES • TurboGrafx 16 / PC Engine • Vectrex > Other Systems • Arduboy • Chess • CHIP-8 • Epoch Galaxy II • Flappy Bird • Game of Life • TomyTronic Scramble
- timbit42 6y ago
  I'm still waiting for the KENBAK-1 core.
  - tediousdemise 6y ago
    Is there good documentation or ICDs out there that adequately describe the architecture? Looks like there’s only 50 that were ever made, and only 14 believed to exist today.
    - zokier 6y ago
      http://kenbakkit.com/manuals.html http://kenbakkit.com/manuals.html Seems pretty well documented. Considering the simplicity of the computer, feels like it would be relatively easy project to get to MiST
- pomian 6y ago
  Interesting project would be to dig out some old cassettes from, let's say, commodore 64. Try to load them into a present day computer by patching wires/cables? - and see if they run in this system. I remember writing for example: a mining program, to calculate, overburden, volume and tonnage, at different slopes, different rock types, etc. The science behind the calculations is still valid, but we could likely increase load times, and calculating times.
near 6y ago
It is indeed an amazing project, especially its open source nature. It provides some impressive power savings and latency reductions that are very hard to match with general purpose CPUs. But in most cases, it is emulation, as the lead developer will attest. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/Why-FPGA https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/Why-FPGA "From my point of view, if the FPGA code is based on the circuitry of real hardware (along with the usual tweaks for FPGA compatibility), then it should be called replication. Anything else is emulation, since it uses different kinds of approximation to meet the same objectives. Currently, it's hard to find a core that can truly be called a replica – most cores are based on more-or-less functional recreations rather than true circuit recreation. The most widely used CPU cores – the Z80 (T80) and MC68000 (TG68K) – are pure functional emulations, not replications. So it's okay to call FPGA cores emulators, unless they are proven to be replicas." But there's nothing wrong with emulation for preservation, until we get to a point where we can wide-scale clone these older chips down to the transistor level through analysis of delayered decap scans. And even then, emulation will be useful for artificial enhancements as well as for understanding how all those transistors actually worked at a higher level. It's also not a total solution: by taking many more transistors to programmatically simulate just one, it limits the maximum scale and frequency of what it can support. N64/PS1/Saturn has not yet been fully supported and is still theoretical, but likely, to be possible. Going beyond that is not possible at this time. Software emulation and FPGA devices should be seen as complementary approaches, rather than competitive. The developers of each often work together, and new knowledge is mutually beneficial.
- floatboth 6y ago
  Well, yeah, it's not replication if it's not an exact hardware replica, but the word "emulation" has very "software" connotations. I guess let's call it.. recreation? (That word is even in the quote above!)
  - someperson 6y ago
    "FPGA re-implementation" may be a better term
- 6y ago

jonny_eh 6y ago

Old projects get reshared many times. It's always new to someone.

tediousdemise 6y ago

Yeah, it really is an amazing application for FPGAs—preserving computing and gaming history. The list of cores available for MiSTer is simply staggering: > Computers - Classic • Acorn Archimedes • Acorn Atom • Alice MC10 • Altair 8800 • Amiga • Amstrad CPC 6128 • Amstrad PCW • ao486 (PC 486) • Apogee • Apple I • Apple II+ • Apple Macintosh Plus • Aquarius • Atari 800XL • Atari ST/STe • BBC Micro B,Master • BK0011M • Color Computer 2, Dragon 32 • Commodore 16, Plus/4 • Commodore 64, Ultimax • Commodore PET • Commodore VIC-20 • DEC PDP-1 • EDSAC • Galaksija • Jupiter Ace • Laser 310 • MSX • MultiComp • Orao • Oric 1 & Atmos • SAM Coupe • Sharp MZ Series • Sinclair QL • Specialist/MX • TI-99/4A • TRS-80 Model 1 • TSConf • Vector 06C • X68000 • ZX Spectrum • ZX Spectrum Next • ZX81 > Consoles - Classic • Astrocade • Atari 2600 • Atari 5200 • Atari Lynx • AY-3-8500 • ColecoVision, SG-1000 • Gameboy, Gameboy Color • Gameboy Advance • Genesis/Megadrive • SMS, Game Gear • MegaCD • NeoGeo • NES • Odyssey2 • SNES • TurboGrafx 16 / PC Engine • Vectrex > Other Systems • Arduboy • Chess • CHIP-8 • Epoch Galaxy II • Flappy Bird • Game of Life • TomyTronic Scramble

timbit42 6y ago
I'm still waiting for the KENBAK-1 core.
- tediousdemise 6y ago
  Is there good documentation or ICDs out there that adequately describe the architecture? Looks like there’s only 50 that were ever made, and only 14 believed to exist today.
  - zokier 6y ago
    http://kenbakkit.com/manuals.html http://kenbakkit.com/manuals.html Seems pretty well documented. Considering the simplicity of the computer, feels like it would be relatively easy project to get to MiST
pomian 6y ago
Interesting project would be to dig out some old cassettes from, let's say, commodore 64. Try to load them into a present day computer by patching wires/cables? - and see if they run in this system. I remember writing for example: a mining program, to calculate, overburden, volume and tonnage, at different slopes, different rock types, etc. The science behind the calculations is still valid, but we could likely increase load times, and calculating times.

near 6y ago

It is indeed an amazing project, especially its open source nature. It provides some impressive power savings and latency reductions that are very hard to match with general purpose CPUs. But in most cases, it is emulation, as the lead developer will attest. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/Why-FPGA https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/Why-FPGA "From my point of view, if the FPGA code is based on the circuitry of real hardware (along with the usual tweaks for FPGA compatibility), then it should be called replication. Anything else is emulation, since it uses different kinds of approximation to meet the same objectives. Currently, it's hard to find a core that can truly be called a replica – most cores are based on more-or-less functional recreations rather than true circuit recreation. The most widely used CPU cores – the Z80 (T80) and MC68000 (TG68K) – are pure functional emulations, not replications. So it's okay to call FPGA cores emulators, unless they are proven to be replicas." But there's nothing wrong with emulation for preservation, until we get to a point where we can wide-scale clone these older chips down to the transistor level through analysis of delayered decap scans. And even then, emulation will be useful for artificial enhancements as well as for understanding how all those transistors actually worked at a higher level. It's also not a total solution: by taking many more transistors to programmatically simulate just one, it limits the maximum scale and frequency of what it can support. N64/PS1/Saturn has not yet been fully supported and is still theoretical, but likely, to be possible. Going beyond that is not possible at this time. Software emulation and FPGA devices should be seen as complementary approaches, rather than competitive. The developers of each often work together, and new knowledge is mutually beneficial.

floatboth 6y ago
Well, yeah, it's not replication if it's not an exact hardware replica, but the word "emulation" has very "software" connotations. I guess let's call it.. recreation? (That word is even in the quote above!)
- someperson 6y ago
  "FPGA re-implementation" may be a better term
6y ago