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Is it not the case that a nation can be multiethnic? I don’t see how Iran’s multiethnic populace disqualifies it’s claim on a national identity (Shia Islam).

by gen220 6y ago

Is it not the case that a nation can be multiethnic? I don’t see how Iran’s multiethnic populace disqualifies it’s claim on a national identity (Shia Islam). On the wiki page for multinational states, I find reasonable examples (Russia, Belgium, UK), and Iran is absent. [1] Does this have to do with the Kurdish nation claiming territory within Iran? Not trying to say you’re wrong, just trying to understand the terminology better. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_state https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_state

dan-robertson 6y ago
Nation is a word with two meanings. One is ‘country’ so the answer is yes (note that nation-state is a silly phrase under this meaning). You see it in terms like nationalisation of industry or national anthem. The other meaning is a group of people with (typically) shared ethnicity, cultural heritage, language, and often, country. For this a multiethnic country doesn’t usually fit the bill. But to some extent words can mean whatever you want them to and lots of groups want themselves to be considered nations (either to promote some unity across diverse people or to push out undesirable groups) even if they don’t strictly fit the usual definition.
- parshua 6y ago
  What are you even talking about? Not only is Iran a nation-state, it is probably one of the first nation-states to exist. The Name of the country itself is close to 2000 years old, and the language they speak is at least 1400 years old. They have had a continuous culture for millennia, and identify themselves as a nation, by name, culture and mostly the language.
  - gen220 6y ago
    I think it's reasonable to debate the language aspect (that's why my original comment focused on religion, which at least appears to be more homogenous in surveys). Apparently ~1/2 of Iranian citizens claim Farsi as their mother tongue, with many citizens claiming Turkic dialects, Kurdish, and "Linguistically-Iranian languages" that are not Farsi (in my mind, this is comparable to Gaeilge, Scots, Welsh within the UK). Then again, I'm sure that identifying as an atheist or non-Shia Muslim in Iran is not in most citizens' best interests, regardless of their underlying beliefs. I don't have a point or conclusion, I do think it's a reasonable thing to discuss. Ultimately, "nation" is an human construct, the and the people who have the authority to claim it are the Iranian people. The Kurds (who compose a significant minority within Iran) would reject the nationalities "Iranian" or "Persian", I think; even more so than Catalans, Basque, or Galcian peoples would reject "Spanish". I don't know if other minorities comprising Iran would, too. It's an interesting question to ponder, though. Anyways, thank you all for this pedantic stroll, it made me learn more about this part of the world than I probably would have, otherwise. :P

by gen220 6y ago

dan-robertson 6y ago

Nation is a word with two meanings. One is ‘country’ so the answer is yes (note that nation-state is a silly phrase under this meaning). You see it in terms like nationalisation of industry or national anthem. The other meaning is a group of people with (typically) shared ethnicity, cultural heritage, language, and often, country. For this a multiethnic country doesn’t usually fit the bill. But to some extent words can mean whatever you want them to and lots of groups want themselves to be considered nations (either to promote some unity across diverse people or to push out undesirable groups) even if they don’t strictly fit the usual definition.

parshua 6y ago
What are you even talking about? Not only is Iran a nation-state, it is probably one of the first nation-states to exist. The Name of the country itself is close to 2000 years old, and the language they speak is at least 1400 years old. They have had a continuous culture for millennia, and identify themselves as a nation, by name, culture and mostly the language.
- gen220 6y ago
  I think it's reasonable to debate the language aspect (that's why my original comment focused on religion, which at least appears to be more homogenous in surveys). Apparently ~1/2 of Iranian citizens claim Farsi as their mother tongue, with many citizens claiming Turkic dialects, Kurdish, and "Linguistically-Iranian languages" that are not Farsi (in my mind, this is comparable to Gaeilge, Scots, Welsh within the UK). Then again, I'm sure that identifying as an atheist or non-Shia Muslim in Iran is not in most citizens' best interests, regardless of their underlying beliefs. I don't have a point or conclusion, I do think it's a reasonable thing to discuss. Ultimately, "nation" is an human construct, the and the people who have the authority to claim it are the Iranian people. The Kurds (who compose a significant minority within Iran) would reject the nationalities "Iranian" or "Persian", I think; even more so than Catalans, Basque, or Galcian peoples would reject "Spanish". I don't know if other minorities comprising Iran would, too. It's an interesting question to ponder, though. Anyways, thank you all for this pedantic stroll, it made me learn more about this part of the world than I probably would have, otherwise. :P