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Israel is clearly enjoying a great moment for inflicting damage on its arch-enemy. If Iran reacts, it's going to get the blame for attacking (because history al

by Udik 5y ago

Israel is clearly enjoying a great moment for inflicting damage on its arch-enemy. If Iran reacts, it's going to get the blame for attacking (because history always begins after Israel's latest offensive action) and the US will find a much hoped for excuse not to re-enter the nuclear deal. So Iran can only endure the humiliation and suck it up. So far they've shown an incredible patience.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
benja123 5y ago
I am going to have to disagree. Iran recently attacked an Israeli ship, but more importantly it continues to arm terrorist groups (note I am Israeli, so I am probably not objective here, but yes I believe Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist groups. Some of you may think differently on that. We can agree to disagree) that are against Israel’s existence. Those groups are constantly either attacking or trying to attack Israel. Now you can argue Israel is also attacking those groups and you wouldn’t be wrong. It’s almost impossible to figure out who started each round. We only ever hear a very small part of the story. It is a circle of violence that will hopefully one day end.
- Udik 5y ago
  > terrorist groups [...] that are against Israel’s existence I think this is an oversimplification useful to justify Israeli aggressiveness. It's also part of the self-deluded statements of those groups. If Israel was interested in peace and justice, it could act like the adult in the room and try to heal the wounds that are at the root of the violence. Let's not forget that Israel is practically an apartheid state (but conveniently outside its fuzzy borders, so it can keep pretending it's not) and that it's been steadily appropriating more land from Palestinians since it's been in existence. If Israel were interested in peace and justice. My take is that it's not interested, because that would put an end to its expansion and unchecked power in the region.
  - luma 5y ago
    It’s interesting that even on HN anything that approaches an anti-Israeli statement is immediately downvoted. Israel is an apartheid state, and that statement requires no qualifications. I’ll accept the inevitable downvotes as validation of both things said above. edit: aaaand flagged. The super-downvote.
    - sprafa 5y ago
      unfortunately this is 100% true and 100% agaisnt US common opinion, apparently.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      Israel is not only an apartheid state, it is a literal ethnostate as the basis of its constitution which consecrates it to a single ethic/religious group. It is guilty of ethnic cleansing and Israeli politicians routinely call for genocide. But it is fine because it's a US ally.
  - luma 5y ago
    Attempts to control internet discourse on all matters that intersect with Israeli foreign policy is presumed to be an important tactic for Israel's cyber teams. It's safe to assume that this venue is no different from other major social media outlets in that regard. My other reply pointed this out directly, along with noting that I'd likely be downvoted. Instead the response was flagged as a super-downvote and now is no longer visible. Israel leverages social media as a weapon and is unwilling to accept a critical view of their actions. edit: lol, right on cue.
- coliveira 5y ago
  > it continues to arm terrorist groups That's all the US does, day and night. And they even say this publicly (although always implying that it is a good thing).
- radycov 5y ago
  From a rationally objective and internationally legal perspective, the military occupation of Gaza enforced through land, sea and air entirely deserve violent retaliation against the occupying force. The Gaza strip is not your land and grand delusions about your moral superiority because you are a historically persecuted people is simply not going to wash. Nor for that matter is silencing critics using fake antisemitism tactics.
  - seoaeu 5y ago
    The idea that Hamas' ongoing efforts to murder Israeli civilians adheres to their obligations under international law is laughable. Ignoring the ceasefires they've signed which require them to, well, cease firing rockets, they don't even make a pretense of aiming at military targets. Not to mention their habit of kidnapping and subsequently killing non-combatants
    - radycov 5y ago
      It might be laughable to you, but perhaps you lack the perspective of random genetic luck to be born in an occupied land.
      - seoaeu 5y ago
        Legality under international law doesn't depend on genetics or where you were born. That is kind of the whole point...
        radycov 5y ago
        You mean like the murder of American Rachel Corrie by the IDF which was ruled an "accident" absolving it of all responsibility?
        seoaeu 5y ago
        Yes, international law establishes the legality of actions which accidentally result in fatalities. I'm not sure how that is relevant to intentional killings by Hamas though
- ezconnect 5y ago
  Iran and Israel used to be friend, but Israel nationalize Irans asset on Israel and didn't pay back oil they took from Iran, Iran got mad that Israel stole their things and now they are sworn enemies.
  - benja123 5y ago
    Iran and Israel stopped being friends after the Islamic revolution when Iran’s government declared Israel is a sworn enemy. Hopefully one day that will change and we can be friends again as no one gains from the conflict.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      A democratic Iran will always be the enemy of Israel. Israel is a nuclear-armed ethnostate engaging in ethnic cleansing that protects these transgressions by operating as the FOB of the hegemonic world power that doesn't blink an eye at killing a million citizens in the region. So long as Israel requires US support to safeguard their otherwise untenable position (and to force Arab dictatorships to act favorably towards Israel), Iran and Israel will be opposed. Iran and Israel were allied before the revolution because the undemocratic government (not that the current one is anymore democratic otherwise) that was willing to act against its interests on the matter so long as the dominant foreign powers required it. It's categorically false that no one gains from the conflict. Israel gains tremendously from the conflict as the antagonism between Iran and Israel and between Iran and the USA is what justifies its ability to get away with so much.
      - shmerl 5y ago
        > A democratic Iran will always be the enemy of Israel. Not really. They have nothing to quarrel about. But there is nothing democratic about today's Iran. Theocratic fascists on the other hand need an enemy to distract from complete failure of internal politics and collapsing economy due to spending all their resources on war and funding criminals and terrorists abroad.
        5y ago
- stunt 5y ago
  > Iran recently attacked an Israeli ship I think you already tried to say it, but remember Iran attacked an Israeli ship after 12 attacks to Iranians ships in 2020 by Israel. And 4 other Iranian ships were attacked in 2021 which two of them happened after Iran tried to retaliate by attacking an Israeli ship. Israel clearly believes that the best defense is a good offense, but that strategy makes it harder to have any dialogue or peace.
  - koheripbal 5y ago
    Let's also remember Iran attacked Saudi Arabia directly not too long ago. They are hardly the victim.
    - ZoomerCretin 5y ago
      This is a non-sequitur. Irani-Saudi relations have nothing to do with Irani-Israeli relations.
cronix 5y ago
> the US will find a much hoped for excuse not to re-enter the nuclear deal. Can you elaborate? All the indications I've seen clearly point to the US wanting to reenter the deal. Biden denounced Trumps withdrawal numerous times during the campaign and vowed to bring the US back into the agreement. It was part of his presidential platform that he ran on, and he lifted several sanctions put in place by the Trump Administration on Iran when he initially got in office (first 2 weeks). If the US really wanted an excuse to stay out, this seems an odd way of going about it vs not saying anything at all and silently continuing Trump's policies.
payamb 5y ago
Iran very much need the money. Iran will show patience as long as it's needed to unblock the money they have in foreign banks. Once that's done, they'll use that money to make more missiles and arm the militia in middle east.

by Udik 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

benja123 5y ago

I am going to have to disagree. Iran recently attacked an Israeli ship, but more importantly it continues to arm terrorist groups (note I am Israeli, so I am probably not objective here, but yes I believe Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist groups. Some of you may think differently on that. We can agree to disagree) that are against Israel’s existence. Those groups are constantly either attacking or trying to attack Israel. Now you can argue Israel is also attacking those groups and you wouldn’t be wrong. It’s almost impossible to figure out who started each round. We only ever hear a very small part of the story. It is a circle of violence that will hopefully one day end.

Udik 5y ago
> terrorist groups [...] that are against Israel’s existence I think this is an oversimplification useful to justify Israeli aggressiveness. It's also part of the self-deluded statements of those groups. If Israel was interested in peace and justice, it could act like the adult in the room and try to heal the wounds that are at the root of the violence. Let's not forget that Israel is practically an apartheid state (but conveniently outside its fuzzy borders, so it can keep pretending it's not) and that it's been steadily appropriating more land from Palestinians since it's been in existence. If Israel were interested in peace and justice. My take is that it's not interested, because that would put an end to its expansion and unchecked power in the region.
- luma 5y ago
  It’s interesting that even on HN anything that approaches an anti-Israeli statement is immediately downvoted. Israel is an apartheid state, and that statement requires no qualifications. I’ll accept the inevitable downvotes as validation of both things said above. edit: aaaand flagged. The super-downvote.
  - sprafa 5y ago
    unfortunately this is 100% true and 100% agaisnt US common opinion, apparently.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Israel is not only an apartheid state, it is a literal ethnostate as the basis of its constitution which consecrates it to a single ethic/religious group. It is guilty of ethnic cleansing and Israeli politicians routinely call for genocide. But it is fine because it's a US ally.
- luma 5y ago
  Attempts to control internet discourse on all matters that intersect with Israeli foreign policy is presumed to be an important tactic for Israel's cyber teams. It's safe to assume that this venue is no different from other major social media outlets in that regard. My other reply pointed this out directly, along with noting that I'd likely be downvoted. Instead the response was flagged as a super-downvote and now is no longer visible. Israel leverages social media as a weapon and is unwilling to accept a critical view of their actions. edit: lol, right on cue.
coliveira 5y ago
> it continues to arm terrorist groups That's all the US does, day and night. And they even say this publicly (although always implying that it is a good thing).
radycov 5y ago
From a rationally objective and internationally legal perspective, the military occupation of Gaza enforced through land, sea and air entirely deserve violent retaliation against the occupying force. The Gaza strip is not your land and grand delusions about your moral superiority because you are a historically persecuted people is simply not going to wash. Nor for that matter is silencing critics using fake antisemitism tactics.
- seoaeu 5y ago
  The idea that Hamas' ongoing efforts to murder Israeli civilians adheres to their obligations under international law is laughable. Ignoring the ceasefires they've signed which require them to, well, cease firing rockets, they don't even make a pretense of aiming at military targets. Not to mention their habit of kidnapping and subsequently killing non-combatants
  - radycov 5y ago
    It might be laughable to you, but perhaps you lack the perspective of random genetic luck to be born in an occupied land.
    - seoaeu 5y ago
      Legality under international law doesn't depend on genetics or where you were born. That is kind of the whole point...
      - radycov 5y ago
        You mean like the murder of American Rachel Corrie by the IDF which was ruled an "accident" absolving it of all responsibility?
        seoaeu 5y ago
        Yes, international law establishes the legality of actions which accidentally result in fatalities. I'm not sure how that is relevant to intentional killings by Hamas though
ezconnect 5y ago
Iran and Israel used to be friend, but Israel nationalize Irans asset on Israel and didn't pay back oil they took from Iran, Iran got mad that Israel stole their things and now they are sworn enemies.
- benja123 5y ago
  Iran and Israel stopped being friends after the Islamic revolution when Iran’s government declared Israel is a sworn enemy. Hopefully one day that will change and we can be friends again as no one gains from the conflict.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    A democratic Iran will always be the enemy of Israel. Israel is a nuclear-armed ethnostate engaging in ethnic cleansing that protects these transgressions by operating as the FOB of the hegemonic world power that doesn't blink an eye at killing a million citizens in the region. So long as Israel requires US support to safeguard their otherwise untenable position (and to force Arab dictatorships to act favorably towards Israel), Iran and Israel will be opposed. Iran and Israel were allied before the revolution because the undemocratic government (not that the current one is anymore democratic otherwise) that was willing to act against its interests on the matter so long as the dominant foreign powers required it. It's categorically false that no one gains from the conflict. Israel gains tremendously from the conflict as the antagonism between Iran and Israel and between Iran and the USA is what justifies its ability to get away with so much.
    - shmerl 5y ago
      > A democratic Iran will always be the enemy of Israel. Not really. They have nothing to quarrel about. But there is nothing democratic about today's Iran. Theocratic fascists on the other hand need an enemy to distract from complete failure of internal politics and collapsing economy due to spending all their resources on war and funding criminals and terrorists abroad.
      - 5y ago
stunt 5y ago
> Iran recently attacked an Israeli ship I think you already tried to say it, but remember Iran attacked an Israeli ship after 12 attacks to Iranians ships in 2020 by Israel. And 4 other Iranian ships were attacked in 2021 which two of them happened after Iran tried to retaliate by attacking an Israeli ship. Israel clearly believes that the best defense is a good offense, but that strategy makes it harder to have any dialogue or peace.
- koheripbal 5y ago
  Let's also remember Iran attacked Saudi Arabia directly not too long ago. They are hardly the victim.
  - ZoomerCretin 5y ago
    This is a non-sequitur. Irani-Saudi relations have nothing to do with Irani-Israeli relations.

cronix 5y ago

> the US will find a much hoped for excuse not to re-enter the nuclear deal. Can you elaborate? All the indications I've seen clearly point to the US wanting to reenter the deal. Biden denounced Trumps withdrawal numerous times during the campaign and vowed to bring the US back into the agreement. It was part of his presidential platform that he ran on, and he lifted several sanctions put in place by the Trump Administration on Iran when he initially got in office (first 2 weeks). If the US really wanted an excuse to stay out, this seems an odd way of going about it vs not saying anything at all and silently continuing Trump's policies.

payamb 5y ago

Iran very much need the money. Iran will show patience as long as it's needed to unblock the money they have in foreign banks. Once that's done, they'll use that money to make more missiles and arm the militia in middle east.