7 ms·

I don't know, if Ayatollah Khamenei's fatwa against nuclear weapons is to be trusted, I can identify somewhat with the argument for Iran gaining a deterrent, ev

I don't know, if Ayatollah Khamenei's fatwa against nuclear weapons is to be trusted, I can identify somewhat with the argument for Iran gaining a deterrent, even though I'd _much_ prefer total nuclear disarmament in the region (effectively meaning just Israeli disarmament).

vxNsr 6y ago
India and Pakistan aren’t in the region?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  As the artificial abstract borders are usually drawn, no, thet are in South Asia not Southwest Asia or MENA; and this isn’t purely abstract, India really is not in any meaningful sense part of the region, and Pakistan, which borders rhe conventionally-defined region, is only tangentially, being more focussed on India, China, and Central Asia than the Middle East (except Iran because borders.)
payamb 6y ago
Iran has no other agenda other than producing nuclear bombs and I say this as an Iranian. Iran has spent tens of billions of dollars in the past decade on what the regime's claims "peaceful nuclear power", ie to produce electricity. meanwhile after spending tens of billions and four decades what we have is a 1000 MW nuclear power plant, and i assure you that's only a shop front so they can argue enriching uranium and making centrifuges are necessary to fuel the plant. Iran has 2nd largest natural gas reserves in the world, because of sanctions Iran has lost lots foreign investments it needed to sell it and/or use it to generate electricity. Natural gas costs peanuts in Iran. We could've made a deal with a foreign company and ask them to build and fuel the power plant for 1/4th of the price and 5 times the capacity like our neighbours (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant) just in case you don't know, fuel for nuclear power plant is the cheapest item in the bill when you are building one. There is no economic benefit (and lots of disadvantage) to start from scratch and enrich your own fuel. I don't want a regime who shuts down an airliner and deny it for 3 days have access to nuclear weapons. do not believe a word from the regime who is killing its own people all the time. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Iranian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Iranian_prot...)
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  As an Iranian, what do you think about the current political regime. Would a return of the Shah be a positive thing, in your opinion? Do you have any fears of Israeli aggression, or would you support a peace deal? I would honestly like to hear what you think about it.
  - 0xFFC 6y ago
    UPDATE: spelling.
    - marshmallow_12 6y ago
      There are more then a million Israeli Arabs who enjoy full citizenship rights. I fact, they enjoy more rights then the average Israeli, being able to enter West Bank freely.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - edanm 6y ago
        > I fact, they enjoy more rights then the average Israeli, being able to enter West Bank freely. I wouldn't go that far. Yes, Israeli Arabs technically have full rights. Yes, technically speaking they might be able to go to places non-Arabs "can't". But that's being really "technically correct". I think for day-to-day living, Israeli Arabs effectively have a worse time living in Israeli than Israeli Jews (e.g. there is at least some racism, unfortunately, there are certainly differences in funding in e.g. Arab schools vs Jewish schools from what I know, etc).
  - payamb 6y ago
    Current political regime the most dishonest, corrupt and dysfunctional regime you can imagine. First thing you need to know is the government itself in Iran is nobody, Ali Khamenei has been enjoying full power and control for the past 30 years or so. Iran's president and minsters can only be appointed by Khamenei's approval. With him being in power he needed a royal force to follow his ideology and shut down any voice of criticism, that's IRGC (Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps). IRGC and Khamenei control as much as 50% of Iran's economy, from telecom to oil. needless to say they don't answer to anyone, they don't pay any taxes and Khameni itself doesn't even do any interviews with the press. I think majority of Iranians hate the current regime as much as i do, for one, It's not possible to change it democratically. One person has all the power in country and he made a powerful force to back him up. every time Iranians want to change the country, Khameni unleash his dogs (IRGC) and they either kill all the protestors or arrest them and sentence them to long term prison. I've been shot and spent time in Iran's political prison (Evin), my crime? participation in peaceful protests (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Green_Movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Green_Movement) > Would a return of the Shah be a positive thing? Return of the Shah, reminds of me Russians who are envy of the soviet union time, because things were better at the time. I personally think democracy is the best way to go and no one person should have majority of the power. > Do you have any fears of Israeli aggression, or would you support a peace deal Enemy of my enemy is my friend, that's how I (and honestly majority of the people that i know) think of Israel. I think at the moment, Israel is the only country in the world stopping the regime from developing nuclear weapons and that's a good thing. Iranians and Israelis historically have been friendly, Its only since this regime got the power that has changed, and i do understand why, because Iran has been threatening to wipe Israel off the map almost everyday.
hajile 6y ago
Nukes means a conventional strike by Israel with the option for further nuclear preemptive strikes. If the US could somehow talk them down, the US ally (Saudi Arabia) would be disadvantaged against the Russian one. This necessitates either removing the nukes or arranging for the Saudis to get some. Iran’s pursuit of nukes is easily one of the most destabilizing power projection attempts in the region.
- Daho0n 6y ago
  History proves without a doubt that having a nuclear arsenal is by far the most stabilizing event than can happen. No one goes up against someone with nukes without holding back. Israel opened Pandora's box when they got their own nukes. So if Iran's attempt is the most destabilizing event today it's clear what caused it. The correct response would be to force Israel to back down and have their sites monitored and only then is it possible to talk to Iran without talking down to them as if they are children. But I'm sure the US would rather give nukes to one of the worst countries in area than go against Israeli wishes.
  - hajile 6y ago
    Israel had nuclear weapons back in 1966. They could have used them when attacked during the 6-day war (a war they almost lost). They could have used them during the following three year war of attrition. They could have used them when attacked during the Yom-Kippur War. The fact that they did not and have never used them as a negotiation tactic since acquiring them shows that Israeli nukes aren't destabilizing the region. Israel hasn't started up wars with its neighbors since its creation (we'll set aside terrorists in Palestine for another conversation sufficing to say that's definitely not a war). Iran has gone to war with almost everyone around at some point during that same 75 year period of time with a total body count in the millions. Finally, nukes only make sense for stability if you take religion off the table. Iranian leaders have called repeatedly, publicly, and recently for the annihilation of Israel. Don't forget that it was prophesied that things on this earth won't wrap up until there's a massive war in which the Jews are exterminated. This is all before discussing how Iran and Saudi Arabia are carrying on a proxy power struggle between Russia and the United States.
AndrewKemendo 6y ago
The going theory is that these proclamations when attributed to religious proclamations (Fatwa) versus policy statements are examples of Taqiya. This view is not without controversy as some claim it's just dog-whistling Islamophobia. However I think a more nuanced view is that Iran is both a nation state as well as a religious state, so (like all nation states) it will protect it's interests however it needs to which will include deception. Whether anyone thinks that the deception is primarily stemming from religious or secular instinct is an exercise for the reader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya
ovi256 6y ago
> nuclear disarmament in the region (effectively meaning just Israeli disarmament) Iran shares a border with Pakistan, which shares borders with India, which shares borders with China, which shares borders with Russia and NK (all nuclear powers). Why don't you want to disarm them too ?

vxNsr 6y ago

India and Pakistan aren’t in the region?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dragonwriter 6y ago
As the artificial abstract borders are usually drawn, no, thet are in South Asia not Southwest Asia or MENA; and this isn’t purely abstract, India really is not in any meaningful sense part of the region, and Pakistan, which borders rhe conventionally-defined region, is only tangentially, being more focussed on India, China, and Central Asia than the Middle East (except Iran because borders.)

payamb 6y ago

Iran has no other agenda other than producing nuclear bombs and I say this as an Iranian. Iran has spent tens of billions of dollars in the past decade on what the regime's claims "peaceful nuclear power", ie to produce electricity. meanwhile after spending tens of billions and four decades what we have is a 1000 MW nuclear power plant, and i assure you that's only a shop front so they can argue enriching uranium and making centrifuges are necessary to fuel the plant. Iran has 2nd largest natural gas reserves in the world, because of sanctions Iran has lost lots foreign investments it needed to sell it and/or use it to generate electricity. Natural gas costs peanuts in Iran. We could've made a deal with a foreign company and ask them to build and fuel the power plant for 1/4th of the price and 5 times the capacity like our neighbours (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant) just in case you don't know, fuel for nuclear power plant is the cheapest item in the bill when you are building one. There is no economic benefit (and lots of disadvantage) to start from scratch and enrich your own fuel. I don't want a regime who shuts down an airliner and deny it for 3 days have access to nuclear weapons. do not believe a word from the regime who is killing its own people all the time. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Iranian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Iranian_prot...)

marshmallow_12 6y ago
As an Iranian, what do you think about the current political regime. Would a return of the Shah be a positive thing, in your opinion? Do you have any fears of Israeli aggression, or would you support a peace deal? I would honestly like to hear what you think about it.
- 0xFFC 6y ago
  UPDATE: spelling.
  - marshmallow_12 6y ago
    There are more then a million Israeli Arabs who enjoy full citizenship rights. I fact, they enjoy more rights then the average Israeli, being able to enter West Bank freely.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - edanm 6y ago
      > I fact, they enjoy more rights then the average Israeli, being able to enter West Bank freely. I wouldn't go that far. Yes, Israeli Arabs technically have full rights. Yes, technically speaking they might be able to go to places non-Arabs "can't". But that's being really "technically correct". I think for day-to-day living, Israeli Arabs effectively have a worse time living in Israeli than Israeli Jews (e.g. there is at least some racism, unfortunately, there are certainly differences in funding in e.g. Arab schools vs Jewish schools from what I know, etc).
- payamb 6y ago
  Current political regime the most dishonest, corrupt and dysfunctional regime you can imagine. First thing you need to know is the government itself in Iran is nobody, Ali Khamenei has been enjoying full power and control for the past 30 years or so. Iran's president and minsters can only be appointed by Khamenei's approval. With him being in power he needed a royal force to follow his ideology and shut down any voice of criticism, that's IRGC (Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps). IRGC and Khamenei control as much as 50% of Iran's economy, from telecom to oil. needless to say they don't answer to anyone, they don't pay any taxes and Khameni itself doesn't even do any interviews with the press. I think majority of Iranians hate the current regime as much as i do, for one, It's not possible to change it democratically. One person has all the power in country and he made a powerful force to back him up. every time Iranians want to change the country, Khameni unleash his dogs (IRGC) and they either kill all the protestors or arrest them and sentence them to long term prison. I've been shot and spent time in Iran's political prison (Evin), my crime? participation in peaceful protests (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Green_Movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Green_Movement) > Would a return of the Shah be a positive thing? Return of the Shah, reminds of me Russians who are envy of the soviet union time, because things were better at the time. I personally think democracy is the best way to go and no one person should have majority of the power. > Do you have any fears of Israeli aggression, or would you support a peace deal Enemy of my enemy is my friend, that's how I (and honestly majority of the people that i know) think of Israel. I think at the moment, Israel is the only country in the world stopping the regime from developing nuclear weapons and that's a good thing. Iranians and Israelis historically have been friendly, Its only since this regime got the power that has changed, and i do understand why, because Iran has been threatening to wipe Israel off the map almost everyday.

hajile 6y ago

Nukes means a conventional strike by Israel with the option for further nuclear preemptive strikes. If the US could somehow talk them down, the US ally (Saudi Arabia) would be disadvantaged against the Russian one. This necessitates either removing the nukes or arranging for the Saudis to get some. Iran’s pursuit of nukes is easily one of the most destabilizing power projection attempts in the region.

Daho0n 6y ago
History proves without a doubt that having a nuclear arsenal is by far the most stabilizing event than can happen. No one goes up against someone with nukes without holding back. Israel opened Pandora's box when they got their own nukes. So if Iran's attempt is the most destabilizing event today it's clear what caused it. The correct response would be to force Israel to back down and have their sites monitored and only then is it possible to talk to Iran without talking down to them as if they are children. But I'm sure the US would rather give nukes to one of the worst countries in area than go against Israeli wishes.
- hajile 6y ago
  Israel had nuclear weapons back in 1966. They could have used them when attacked during the 6-day war (a war they almost lost). They could have used them during the following three year war of attrition. They could have used them when attacked during the Yom-Kippur War. The fact that they did not and have never used them as a negotiation tactic since acquiring them shows that Israeli nukes aren't destabilizing the region. Israel hasn't started up wars with its neighbors since its creation (we'll set aside terrorists in Palestine for another conversation sufficing to say that's definitely not a war). Iran has gone to war with almost everyone around at some point during that same 75 year period of time with a total body count in the millions. Finally, nukes only make sense for stability if you take religion off the table. Iranian leaders have called repeatedly, publicly, and recently for the annihilation of Israel. Don't forget that it was prophesied that things on this earth won't wrap up until there's a massive war in which the Jews are exterminated. This is all before discussing how Iran and Saudi Arabia are carrying on a proxy power struggle between Russia and the United States.

AndrewKemendo 6y ago

The going theory is that these proclamations when attributed to religious proclamations (Fatwa) versus policy statements are examples of Taqiya. This view is not without controversy as some claim it's just dog-whistling Islamophobia. However I think a more nuanced view is that Iran is both a nation state as well as a religious state, so (like all nation states) it will protect it's interests however it needs to which will include deception. Whether anyone thinks that the deception is primarily stemming from religious or secular instinct is an exercise for the reader. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya

ovi256 6y ago

> nuclear disarmament in the region (effectively meaning just Israeli disarmament) Iran shares a border with Pakistan, which shares borders with India, which shares borders with China, which shares borders with Russia and NK (all nuclear powers). Why don't you want to disarm them too ?