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Reminded of "What is the most sophisticated piece of software ever written?" on Quora. Buckle in. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-sophisticated-piece-o

by jchook 6y ago

Reminded of "What is the most sophisticated piece of software ever written?" on Quora. Buckle in. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-sophisticated-piece-of-software-ever-written-1 https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-sophisticated-piece-o...

crocktucker 6y ago
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- throwaway4good 6y ago
  What?! So I can get my computer infected?!
  - crocktucker 6y ago
    I was eager for some insight into sophisticated software (either deep or funny - I was open for anything); I was greeted with a prompt to enable JavaScript. I still haven't been able to clean all the irony off my monitor.
IncRnd 6y ago
Yea, that's what someone wrote on Quora, but Stuxnet isn't the most sophisticated piece of software ever written - let alone that it is not the most sophisticated exploit ever written.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  Find me another program that requires knowledge more niche than nuclear refinement processes suitable for the production of weapons, and enough HUMINT to know what to target etc. Stuxnet is probably not the most sophisticated program ever, but it's probably the most information dense.
  - pooya13 6y ago
    > suitable for the production of weapons Where have you seen any evidence that Stuxnet relied on information on production of nuclear weapons?
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      So you're saying they went to all that effort and then just picked a random number for what to spin the centrifuges up to? All they'd have to do is get a Nuclear Physicist from the weapons program in
      - pooya13 5y ago
        No. I’m saying how do infer it was suitable for nuclear weapons production? The International Atomic Agency has the most stringent oversight on the Iranian nuclear program and there has been no evidence of a nuclear weapons program.
        IncRnd 5y ago
        It is not inference but deduction and knowledge. Iran has long said that they enrich 20% uranium and can enrich 60% if needed. 20% is the minimum needed for weapons-grade and is 4-6 times what is needed for civilian power. There were talks between the US and Iran in 2010 about lowering the enrichment levels.
        pooya13 5y ago
        20% is for medical isotopes not power. They can also export not just for domestic use. Good thing we don’t base international law on deduction.
        IncRnd 5y ago
        You didn't read my comment. I definitely did not write that 20% is for power.
- busyant 6y ago
  > Stuxnet isn't the most sophisticated piece of software ever written I think "sophisticated" is in the eye of the beholder. However you'd like to characterize it, the full scope of the Stuxnet attack seems pretty impressive. Especially the part where the virus simultaneously increases centrifuge speeds while concealing this information from the people monitoring the fuges.
jonplackett 6y ago
Does everyone agree with that assessment? Surely Linux is more complicated than Stuxnet? Or does that not count as a ‘single piece’?
- crazygringo 6y ago
  Sophisticated != complicated
  - jonplackett 6y ago
    Ok, but I would have presumed linux was also more sophisticated, having been developed over a much longer period of time. What is it that’s more sophisticated about stuxnet than Linux?
    - crazygringo 6y ago
      A good rule of thumb to think about it might be, how many people in the world could write code to achieve a particular objective? If the answer is 100,000's of people (i.e. good programmers), then it's not super-sophisticated, no matter how complicated it may be. If the answer is 100's of people, then it is super-sophisticated. Stuxnet appears to be the latter, given the advanced techniques, zero-days, and target knowledge it required. Think of it like the difference between New York City and a nuclear fusion warhead. New York City is incredibly more complicated than a warhead, but a warhead is incredibly more sophsiticated.

by jchook 6y ago

crocktucker 6y ago

Please enable Javascript and refresh the page to continue

throwaway4good 6y ago
What?! So I can get my computer infected?!
- crocktucker 6y ago
  I was eager for some insight into sophisticated software (either deep or funny - I was open for anything); I was greeted with a prompt to enable JavaScript. I still haven't been able to clean all the irony off my monitor.

IncRnd 6y ago

Yea, that's what someone wrote on Quora, but Stuxnet isn't the most sophisticated piece of software ever written - let alone that it is not the most sophisticated exploit ever written.

mhh__ 6y ago
Find me another program that requires knowledge more niche than nuclear refinement processes suitable for the production of weapons, and enough HUMINT to know what to target etc. Stuxnet is probably not the most sophisticated program ever, but it's probably the most information dense.
- pooya13 6y ago
  > suitable for the production of weapons Where have you seen any evidence that Stuxnet relied on information on production of nuclear weapons?
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    So you're saying they went to all that effort and then just picked a random number for what to spin the centrifuges up to? All they'd have to do is get a Nuclear Physicist from the weapons program in
    - pooya13 5y ago
      No. I’m saying how do infer it was suitable for nuclear weapons production? The International Atomic Agency has the most stringent oversight on the Iranian nuclear program and there has been no evidence of a nuclear weapons program.
      - IncRnd 5y ago
        It is not inference but deduction and knowledge. Iran has long said that they enrich 20% uranium and can enrich 60% if needed. 20% is the minimum needed for weapons-grade and is 4-6 times what is needed for civilian power. There were talks between the US and Iran in 2010 about lowering the enrichment levels.
        pooya13 5y ago
        20% is for medical isotopes not power. They can also export not just for domestic use. Good thing we don’t base international law on deduction.
        IncRnd 5y ago
        You didn't read my comment. I definitely did not write that 20% is for power.
busyant 6y ago
> Stuxnet isn't the most sophisticated piece of software ever written I think "sophisticated" is in the eye of the beholder. However you'd like to characterize it, the full scope of the Stuxnet attack seems pretty impressive. Especially the part where the virus simultaneously increases centrifuge speeds while concealing this information from the people monitoring the fuges.

jonplackett 6y ago

Does everyone agree with that assessment? Surely Linux is more complicated than Stuxnet? Or does that not count as a ‘single piece’?

crazygringo 6y ago
Sophisticated != complicated
- jonplackett 6y ago
  Ok, but I would have presumed linux was also more sophisticated, having been developed over a much longer period of time. What is it that’s more sophisticated about stuxnet than Linux?
  - crazygringo 6y ago
    A good rule of thumb to think about it might be, how many people in the world could write code to achieve a particular objective? If the answer is 100,000's of people (i.e. good programmers), then it's not super-sophisticated, no matter how complicated it may be. If the answer is 100's of people, then it is super-sophisticated. Stuxnet appears to be the latter, given the advanced techniques, zero-days, and target knowledge it required. Think of it like the difference between New York City and a nuclear fusion warhead. New York City is incredibly more complicated than a warhead, but a warhead is incredibly more sophsiticated.