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"Israeli media have suggested that the malfunction was a result of an Israeli cyber attack." "Last July, sabotage was blamed for a fire at the Natanz site whic

by stunt 6y ago

"Israeli media have suggested that the malfunction was a result of an Israeli cyber attack." "Last July, sabotage was blamed for a fire at the Natanz site which hit a central centrifuge assembly workshop." The same facility was targeted by Stuxnet in 2010.

imglorp 6y ago
It's in almost everyone's interest to keep Iran from getting nukes. So, if any one of them are planning another sabotage, there's probably a line.
- rjzzleep 6y ago
  Define "everyone"?
  - parsimo2010 6y ago
    Practically every nation on Earth except Iran. Even the countries that have friendly relations with Iran would prefer to negotiate from a position of power. Notice that even after all these years that neither Russia, China, or any of the other nuclear powers have “lost” nuclear material or technical information to enable Iran to make a nuclear weapon. And none of the non-nuclear powers would be happy if Iran had nukes but they did not.
    - payamb 6y ago
      > Practically every nation on Earth except Iran Including citizens of Iran.
  - flyinglizard 6y ago
    The “almost” qualifier was intended for you. Other than that, more nukes on earth aren’t good for anyone, especially as Iranian nukes would enable - not restrain - their aggression.
- dundarious 6y ago
  I don't know, if Ayatollah Khamenei's fatwa against nuclear weapons is to be trusted, I can identify somewhat with the argument for Iran gaining a deterrent, even though I'd _much_ prefer total nuclear disarmament in the region (effectively meaning just Israeli disarmament).
  - vxNsr 6y ago
    India and Pakistan aren’t in the region?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      As the artificial abstract borders are usually drawn, no, thet are in South Asia not Southwest Asia or MENA; and this isn’t purely abstract, India really is not in any meaningful sense part of the region, and Pakistan, which borders rhe conventionally-defined region, is only tangentially, being more focussed on India, China, and Central Asia than the Middle East (except Iran because borders.)
  - payamb 6y ago
    Iran has no other agenda other than producing nuclear bombs and I say this as an Iranian. Iran has spent tens of billions of dollars in the past decade on what the regime's claims "peaceful nuclear power", ie to produce electricity. meanwhile after spending tens of billions and four decades what we have is a 1000 MW nuclear power plant, and i assure you that's only a shop front so they can argue enriching uranium and making centrifuges are necessary to fuel the plant. Iran has 2nd largest natural gas reserves in the world, because of sanctions Iran has lost lots foreign investments it needed to sell it and/or use it to generate electricity. Natural gas costs peanuts in Iran. We could've made a deal with a foreign company and ask them to build and fuel the power plant for 1/4th of the price and 5 times the capacity like our neighbours (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant) just in case you don't know, fuel for nuclear power plant is the cheapest item in the bill when you are building one. There is no economic benefit (and lots of disadvantage) to start from scratch and enrich your own fuel. I don't want a regime who shuts down an airliner and deny it for 3 days have access to nuclear weapons. do not believe a word from the regime who is killing its own people all the time. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Iranian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Iranian_prot...)
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > It's in almost everyone's interest to keep Iran from getting nukes. It’s in almost everyone’s interest, absent complete regional disarmament in WMD, for someone other than Israel in the region to get nukes, and Iran is probably the least-bad option. OTOH, it would reduce the possibility of eventually convincing Israel to go the South Africa route, but its dubious whether that can be managed anyway, short of a similar trigger, which doesn’t seem likely in Israel for both demographic and geopolitical reasons.
ptsneves 6y ago
There is a bit of a sweet feeling: Sabotage can be mostly done without victims where the only collateral is equipment. Please do not see this as validating this specific sabotage itself, but with such scenarios at least we might have reduced human suffering part of our existence.

by stunt 6y ago

imglorp 6y ago

It's in almost everyone's interest to keep Iran from getting nukes. So, if any one of them are planning another sabotage, there's probably a line.

rjzzleep 6y ago
Define "everyone"?
- parsimo2010 6y ago
  Practically every nation on Earth except Iran. Even the countries that have friendly relations with Iran would prefer to negotiate from a position of power. Notice that even after all these years that neither Russia, China, or any of the other nuclear powers have “lost” nuclear material or technical information to enable Iran to make a nuclear weapon. And none of the non-nuclear powers would be happy if Iran had nukes but they did not.
  - payamb 6y ago
    > Practically every nation on Earth except Iran Including citizens of Iran.
- flyinglizard 6y ago
  The “almost” qualifier was intended for you. Other than that, more nukes on earth aren’t good for anyone, especially as Iranian nukes would enable - not restrain - their aggression.
dundarious 6y ago
I don't know, if Ayatollah Khamenei's fatwa against nuclear weapons is to be trusted, I can identify somewhat with the argument for Iran gaining a deterrent, even though I'd _much_ prefer total nuclear disarmament in the region (effectively meaning just Israeli disarmament).
- vxNsr 6y ago
  India and Pakistan aren’t in the region?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    As the artificial abstract borders are usually drawn, no, thet are in South Asia not Southwest Asia or MENA; and this isn’t purely abstract, India really is not in any meaningful sense part of the region, and Pakistan, which borders rhe conventionally-defined region, is only tangentially, being more focussed on India, China, and Central Asia than the Middle East (except Iran because borders.)
- payamb 6y ago
  Iran has no other agenda other than producing nuclear bombs and I say this as an Iranian. Iran has spent tens of billions of dollars in the past decade on what the regime's claims "peaceful nuclear power", ie to produce electricity. meanwhile after spending tens of billions and four decades what we have is a 1000 MW nuclear power plant, and i assure you that's only a shop front so they can argue enriching uranium and making centrifuges are necessary to fuel the plant. Iran has 2nd largest natural gas reserves in the world, because of sanctions Iran has lost lots foreign investments it needed to sell it and/or use it to generate electricity. Natural gas costs peanuts in Iran. We could've made a deal with a foreign company and ask them to build and fuel the power plant for 1/4th of the price and 5 times the capacity like our neighbours (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant) just in case you don't know, fuel for nuclear power plant is the cheapest item in the bill when you are building one. There is no economic benefit (and lots of disadvantage) to start from scratch and enrich your own fuel. I don't want a regime who shuts down an airliner and deny it for 3 days have access to nuclear weapons. do not believe a word from the regime who is killing its own people all the time. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Iranian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Iranian_prot...)
dragonwriter 6y ago
> It's in almost everyone's interest to keep Iran from getting nukes. It’s in almost everyone’s interest, absent complete regional disarmament in WMD, for someone other than Israel in the region to get nukes, and Iran is probably the least-bad option. OTOH, it would reduce the possibility of eventually convincing Israel to go the South Africa route, but its dubious whether that can be managed anyway, short of a similar trigger, which doesn’t seem likely in Israel for both demographic and geopolitical reasons.

ptsneves 6y ago

There is a bit of a sweet feeling: Sabotage can be mostly done without victims where the only collateral is equipment. Please do not see this as validating this specific sabotage itself, but with such scenarios at least we might have reduced human suffering part of our existence.