4 ms·

"Planes take longer to travel city centre to city centre" always gets trotted out in these discussions, but it's the wrong comparison. People don't all live in

"Planes take longer to travel city centre to city centre" always gets trotted out in these discussions, but it's the wrong comparison. People don't all live in the city centre. Airports are usually outside the city, but well served by motorways and public transport. I wouldn't be surprised if more people can reach Charles de Gaulle or Orly within 45 minutes at rush hour than can get to Gare de Lyon.

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
But then you need a car, and you need to either deal with rental/pickup/dropoff, or pay something ridiculous for parking.
jcranmer 6y ago
The US cities with the best transit have poor transit by world measures. Sure, most people don't live in the city centers, they live in the suburbs. But for much of Europe, suburbia means easy access to high frequency regional rail transit systems that gives you easy 45-60 minute access to city center at all times of the day. Even in the US, where I've lived in cities that had what the US thinks is good transit, getting to an intercity rail station has often been as easy, if not easier, than getting to the airport, even though I'm originating in the suburbs.
vladvasiliu 6y ago
> I wouldn't be surprised if more people can reach Charles de Gaulle or Orly within 45 minutes at rush hour than can get to Gare de Lyon. Actually, I would. The highways around Orly (A6 and A86) tend to be extremely congested during rush hour. Add to it that the areas around those airports aren't that densely populated and are sufficiently far out so that public transportation has to go through Paris if you're not close by, and I don't think that more people are able to reach the airports quicker than Gare de Lyon or Gare du Nord. Charles de Gaulle is even further out in the "country" so I think there are even less people able to reach that quickly, especially via the A1 and A3 which are also congested all the time. Then once there, the airport is so huge that just getting around it may take you a good 15-20 minutes. Note that for some destinations south of Paris there are TGVs departing from Massy, which is a couple stops away from Orly. The same applies for CDG and the north. Also, Paris is only one end of the journey. On the other side, the public transit situation isn't always as great. It's either some sort of bus, which takes forever (especially during rush hour), or some taxi which may be somewhat quicker than the bus but will cost an arm and a leg.
kergonath 6y ago
> I wouldn't be surprised if more people can reach Charles de Gaulle or Orly within 45 minutes at rush hour than can get to Gare de Lyon. Gare de Lyon sits on the RER A and 1 stop away from the RER B. Plus local suburban trains that terminate there. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but that is dead easy to access, and connects an awful lot of people. Gare du Nord is similarly very easy to get to (and the busiest station in Europe). Granted, Montparnasse or St Lazare are annoying.

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago

But then you need a car, and you need to either deal with rental/pickup/dropoff, or pay something ridiculous for parking.

jcranmer 6y ago

The US cities with the best transit have poor transit by world measures. Sure, most people don't live in the city centers, they live in the suburbs. But for much of Europe, suburbia means easy access to high frequency regional rail transit systems that gives you easy 45-60 minute access to city center at all times of the day. Even in the US, where I've lived in cities that had what the US thinks is good transit, getting to an intercity rail station has often been as easy, if not easier, than getting to the airport, even though I'm originating in the suburbs.

vladvasiliu 6y ago

> I wouldn't be surprised if more people can reach Charles de Gaulle or Orly within 45 minutes at rush hour than can get to Gare de Lyon. Actually, I would. The highways around Orly (A6 and A86) tend to be extremely congested during rush hour. Add to it that the areas around those airports aren't that densely populated and are sufficiently far out so that public transportation has to go through Paris if you're not close by, and I don't think that more people are able to reach the airports quicker than Gare de Lyon or Gare du Nord. Charles de Gaulle is even further out in the "country" so I think there are even less people able to reach that quickly, especially via the A1 and A3 which are also congested all the time. Then once there, the airport is so huge that just getting around it may take you a good 15-20 minutes. Note that for some destinations south of Paris there are TGVs departing from Massy, which is a couple stops away from Orly. The same applies for CDG and the north. Also, Paris is only one end of the journey. On the other side, the public transit situation isn't always as great. It's either some sort of bus, which takes forever (especially during rush hour), or some taxi which may be somewhat quicker than the bus but will cost an arm and a leg.

kergonath 6y ago

> I wouldn't be surprised if more people can reach Charles de Gaulle or Orly within 45 minutes at rush hour than can get to Gare de Lyon. Gare de Lyon sits on the RER A and 1 stop away from the RER B. Plus local suburban trains that terminate there. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but that is dead easy to access, and connects an awful lot of people. Gare du Nord is similarly very easy to get to (and the busiest station in Europe). Granted, Montparnasse or St Lazare are annoying.