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'Incredibly simple' answers and platitudes do an immense disservice to anyone trying optimize the effects of diet and exercise. For example, high-intensity inte

'Incredibly simple' answers and platitudes do an immense disservice to anyone trying optimize the effects of diet and exercise. For example, high-intensity interval training has been shown to be far more effective than low-intensity. And many have found a starvation diet is impossible to maintain and far less effective than a keto diet. It may seem like a waste of time to you, but this type of research can add up to important shifts in how we understand and maintain health.

wrycoder 6y ago
Agreed. Gary Taubes has written three high quality books on the subject. The most technical and heavily referenced are Why We Get Fat and The Case For Keto. The latter was just published. I’ve been following a low glycemic diet for decades, but Taubes explains technically why it minimizes fat deposition. If I start eating snacks like candy or corn chips, the weight gain is immediate and obvious. Not all calories are the same - some foods just “go to your hips”.
- Pinguinsan 6y ago
  Eating low carb and switching to high carb will cause significant water weight increase due to increased muscle glycogen. On the order of 5-10lbs. It's not fat.
  - wrycoder 6y ago
    That’s correct. For me, the effect is about four pounds. It comes off as fast as it went on. But if I continue to eat high carb, there is a weight gain that is much harder to shed.
    - Pinguinsan 6y ago
      Are you saying that a diet from higher carbs will produce more fat gain than an equicaloric low carb diet?
      - david-gpu 6y ago
        Not the person you addressed, but people are not lab rats whose daily caloric amount is controlled by a lab technician. We humans in rich countries eat ad libitum. Any dietary intervention that helps us feel less hungry will lead to a reduction in the calories we consume.
        Pinguinsan 6y ago
        I never said they didn't. I said that a diet, when controlled for calorie levels, will yield identical fat gain/loss.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - TheCoelacanth 6y ago
        Of course not. The type of foods you eat affects how many calories you eat so the diets won't be equicaloric.
        Pinguinsan 6y ago
        Well the person I responded to is claiming equicaloric diets lead to different levels of fat gain.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - wrycoder 6y ago
        Yes, I am saying just that. The body uses 100 calories of corn chips and Coke differently than 100 calories of bacon eaten by itself. Read Taubes for references to the scientific literature.
        Pinguinsan 6y ago
Pinguinsan 6y ago
Effective for what? Body composition? Fitness? If the latter, please explain why all elite endurance athletes do the overwhelming majority (>95%) of their training at low intensities. If the former, well, elite endurance athletes sure aren't fat.
- insickness 6y ago
  First, I would like to see a source for your 95%. That sounds fishy. Almost every sport I can think of incorporates high intensity interval training and did before it became common for the layperson to incorporate in exercise regimens. Second, what elite athletes do often does not translate to what laypeople can and should do. Most elite athletes have a tremendous gene advantage over other people, not to mention the time, energy, diet, coaches, etc., that allows them to push beyond what the average person can tolerate. It's almost ridiculous to say, "Micheal Phelps does xyz in the pool and you should too if you want to improve your health in the most efficient way possible."
  - Pinguinsan 6y ago
    What is the cutoff for elite athletes vs non-elites? A 5 minute mile? 6 minute mile? Why would there be a discontinuous jump between what a lay person should do versus a profesionally athlete? Sure, volume and intensity would be scaled back but type of exercise wouldn't be all that different. See https://bodyrecomposition.com/training/endurance-training-method-1 https://bodyrecomposition.com/training/endurance-training-me... for an example. The German track cycling team does 90+% of their training at low intensities. For an event lasting 4 minutes. The simple fact is that at the highest level, all pure endurance athletes do mostly aerobic work.
    - insickness 6y ago
      Ok, I missed where you were referring specifically to endurance athletes. You may be correct that endurance athletes do most of their training at lower intensities, although they almost all incorporate some type of higher intensity interval training. The reason I separate elite athletes from others is that they are genetically different than the average person. To be an elite athlete in a super competitive sport, you are not representative of the normal population. You can likely train harder and longer and most likely have some type of other genetic advantage. It's far better to focus on studies that look at normal people rather than elite athletes. Anyway, to go back to your original question, asking how HIIT is more effective, you are right that it is not necessarily effective at every endeavor. But literature shows that for the average person, doing 10 minutes of HIIT can be as effective in losing weight, gaining muscle, cardiovascular fitness, etc. as doing something like 30 minutes of low-intensity exercise.

wrycoder 6y ago

Agreed. Gary Taubes has written three high quality books on the subject. The most technical and heavily referenced are Why We Get Fat and The Case For Keto. The latter was just published. I’ve been following a low glycemic diet for decades, but Taubes explains technically why it minimizes fat deposition. If I start eating snacks like candy or corn chips, the weight gain is immediate and obvious. Not all calories are the same - some foods just “go to your hips”.

Pinguinsan 6y ago
Eating low carb and switching to high carb will cause significant water weight increase due to increased muscle glycogen. On the order of 5-10lbs. It's not fat.
- wrycoder 6y ago
  That’s correct. For me, the effect is about four pounds. It comes off as fast as it went on. But if I continue to eat high carb, there is a weight gain that is much harder to shed.
  - Pinguinsan 6y ago
    Are you saying that a diet from higher carbs will produce more fat gain than an equicaloric low carb diet?
    - david-gpu 6y ago
      Not the person you addressed, but people are not lab rats whose daily caloric amount is controlled by a lab technician. We humans in rich countries eat ad libitum. Any dietary intervention that helps us feel less hungry will lead to a reduction in the calories we consume.
      - Pinguinsan 6y ago
        I never said they didn't. I said that a diet, when controlled for calorie levels, will yield identical fat gain/loss.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - TheCoelacanth 6y ago
      Of course not. The type of foods you eat affects how many calories you eat so the diets won't be equicaloric.
      - Pinguinsan 6y ago
        Well the person I responded to is claiming equicaloric diets lead to different levels of fat gain.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - wrycoder 6y ago
      Yes, I am saying just that. The body uses 100 calories of corn chips and Coke differently than 100 calories of bacon eaten by itself. Read Taubes for references to the scientific literature.
      - Pinguinsan 6y ago

Pinguinsan 6y ago

Effective for what? Body composition? Fitness? If the latter, please explain why all elite endurance athletes do the overwhelming majority (>95%) of their training at low intensities. If the former, well, elite endurance athletes sure aren't fat.

insickness 6y ago
First, I would like to see a source for your 95%. That sounds fishy. Almost every sport I can think of incorporates high intensity interval training and did before it became common for the layperson to incorporate in exercise regimens. Second, what elite athletes do often does not translate to what laypeople can and should do. Most elite athletes have a tremendous gene advantage over other people, not to mention the time, energy, diet, coaches, etc., that allows them to push beyond what the average person can tolerate. It's almost ridiculous to say, "Micheal Phelps does xyz in the pool and you should too if you want to improve your health in the most efficient way possible."
- Pinguinsan 6y ago
  What is the cutoff for elite athletes vs non-elites? A 5 minute mile? 6 minute mile? Why would there be a discontinuous jump between what a lay person should do versus a profesionally athlete? Sure, volume and intensity would be scaled back but type of exercise wouldn't be all that different. See https://bodyrecomposition.com/training/endurance-training-method-1 https://bodyrecomposition.com/training/endurance-training-me... for an example. The German track cycling team does 90+% of their training at low intensities. For an event lasting 4 minutes. The simple fact is that at the highest level, all pure endurance athletes do mostly aerobic work.
  - insickness 6y ago
    Ok, I missed where you were referring specifically to endurance athletes. You may be correct that endurance athletes do most of their training at lower intensities, although they almost all incorporate some type of higher intensity interval training. The reason I separate elite athletes from others is that they are genetically different than the average person. To be an elite athlete in a super competitive sport, you are not representative of the normal population. You can likely train harder and longer and most likely have some type of other genetic advantage. It's far better to focus on studies that look at normal people rather than elite athletes. Anyway, to go back to your original question, asking how HIIT is more effective, you are right that it is not necessarily effective at every endeavor. But literature shows that for the average person, doing 10 minutes of HIIT can be as effective in losing weight, gaining muscle, cardiovascular fitness, etc. as doing something like 30 minutes of low-intensity exercise.