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> relying on the government to fund their lifestyle This sort of rhetoric needs to stop as well. Public funding of someone's basic needs of food and shelter is

> relying on the government to fund their lifestyle This sort of rhetoric needs to stop as well. Public funding of someone's basic needs of food and shelter isn't a lifestyle. And anyway, a person receiving such funds probably paid for it already in taxes - usually, they're just taking out a bit from what they've already contributed to.

systemvoltage 6y ago
People raising 5 kids on gov support in Switzerland getting CHF 6500 a month for unemployment. Playing video games all day, smoking weed and nothing to return back to the society. I’ve stayed in one of these low income housing communities in the outskirts of Zurich. These were Italian immigrants that had trouble finding a job. The wife couldn’t speak German and had no education. Decided to fuck it and go along with raising kids anyways. If this is not lifestyle, I don’t know what is.
- crumbshot 6y ago
  Raising kids is a significant contribution to society. Though sadly, as your comment demonstrates, it's a form of labour that is very often undervalued.
  - systemvoltage 6y ago
    You’re not wrong. I wonder what their future would be if the society squanders their productivity. Switzerland would turn into Somalia eventually.
    - crumbshot 6y ago
      I'm not really sure what you mean by the comparison to Somalia? Seems like a very different situation, as Somalia is still recovering from civil war and genocide, and due to this, much of the economic support for its people is being provided by Somali diaspora around the world who send funds back home. Productivity potentially being squandered is the least of their problems really.
roenxi 6y ago
> Public funding of someone's basic needs of food and shelter isn't a lifestyle. It sounds like a big chunk of a lifestyle, something like 30% of my lifestyle is food and shelter. What do you want to call it? And that isn't really germane to the debate. If someone is relying on the government for basic food and shelter they aren't going to be able to hold a candle to someone who is economically independent. One of those two is just more important and respectable than the other. > usually, they're just taking out a bit from what they've already contributed to If you see taxes as some sort of savings program then fair enough, but then would you have objections if people like me opt out of paying into that part? Because I reckon I could set up an insurance program that would cost a fraction as much. Pretty sure I'm paying for a lot of people who haven't contributed as much as they are taking out (and I'm pretty sure most people think that is the point).
- krapp 6y ago
  >If someone is relying on the government for basic food and shelter they aren't going to be able to hold a candle to someone who is economically independent. Relying on an employer for food and shelter makes one no more economically independent than reliance on a government. Unless you're wealthy, you're left begging to one system or another.
- crumbshot 6y ago
  My point is that when someone is currently relying on a state welfare programme to meet their basic needs, it doesn't imply a lack of contribution to society - as is too often the connotation.

systemvoltage 6y ago

People raising 5 kids on gov support in Switzerland getting CHF 6500 a month for unemployment. Playing video games all day, smoking weed and nothing to return back to the society. I’ve stayed in one of these low income housing communities in the outskirts of Zurich. These were Italian immigrants that had trouble finding a job. The wife couldn’t speak German and had no education. Decided to fuck it and go along with raising kids anyways. If this is not lifestyle, I don’t know what is.

crumbshot 6y ago
Raising kids is a significant contribution to society. Though sadly, as your comment demonstrates, it's a form of labour that is very often undervalued.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  You’re not wrong. I wonder what their future would be if the society squanders their productivity. Switzerland would turn into Somalia eventually.
  - crumbshot 6y ago
    I'm not really sure what you mean by the comparison to Somalia? Seems like a very different situation, as Somalia is still recovering from civil war and genocide, and due to this, much of the economic support for its people is being provided by Somali diaspora around the world who send funds back home. Productivity potentially being squandered is the least of their problems really.

roenxi 6y ago

> Public funding of someone's basic needs of food and shelter isn't a lifestyle. It sounds like a big chunk of a lifestyle, something like 30% of my lifestyle is food and shelter. What do you want to call it? And that isn't really germane to the debate. If someone is relying on the government for basic food and shelter they aren't going to be able to hold a candle to someone who is economically independent. One of those two is just more important and respectable than the other. > usually, they're just taking out a bit from what they've already contributed to If you see taxes as some sort of savings program then fair enough, but then would you have objections if people like me opt out of paying into that part? Because I reckon I could set up an insurance program that would cost a fraction as much. Pretty sure I'm paying for a lot of people who haven't contributed as much as they are taking out (and I'm pretty sure most people think that is the point).

krapp 6y ago
>If someone is relying on the government for basic food and shelter they aren't going to be able to hold a candle to someone who is economically independent. Relying on an employer for food and shelter makes one no more economically independent than reliance on a government. Unless you're wealthy, you're left begging to one system or another.
crumbshot 6y ago
My point is that when someone is currently relying on a state welfare programme to meet their basic needs, it doesn't imply a lack of contribution to society - as is too often the connotation.