4 ms·

I spent a few weeks recently persuading two relatively large groups of non-technical people (50+ people in each) to move from WhatsApp to Signal. I absolutely h

I spent a few weeks recently persuading two relatively large groups of non-technical people (50+ people in each) to move from WhatsApp to Signal. I absolutely hate this move from Signal, and this blog post makes no difference whatsoever to that feeling. The idea of private messaging is a relatively easy one to talk to people about. Adding cryptocurrencies into the mix - when, fairly or unfairly, news coverage about it is mostly about financial speculation, the "dark web" and illegal drugs - is a terrible idea if the idea behind Signal is broad uptake of a secure messaging app that doesn't have links to companies like Facebook. Whether the settings are buried or not people will find out about this as time passes, and when they do it's going to create distrust. As others have suggested, if you want to do cryptocurrencies, why not create a separate "Signal Wallet" app or something? Although even that won't help the fact that it will tarnish the "Signal" brand in the eyes of many.

cageface 6y ago
I finally managed to move a big chunk of my friends over to Signal after almost a year of gentle but steady encouragement. Now I wish I hadn't bothered. I'm sure I won't be able to get them to move again and I've lost my confidence that any other new solution will be trustworthy. Maybe the devil you know in WhatsApp is better than more nasty surprises like this?
- webmobdev 6y ago
  GNU Jami - https://jami.net/ https://jami.net/ - is what you needed to promote. There's a very good reason most of the commercial messengers never mention it when they compare themselves to other messengers ... it's the obvious winner.
  - raspyberr 6y ago
    I think Jami is great. Not having offline messages would be a pretty killer disadvantage to regular people though right?
    - webmobdev 6y ago
      Offline messaging is indeed a challenge on such distributed services that avoid any central servers. Currently messages are only cached for around 10 minutes in the DHT network before they are discarded. The way Jami currently handles delivery of such messages is to cache the message on the sender's device, and send it as soon the recipient of the message comes online. This ofcourse requires the sender to be online as much as possible. Beta testing is currently going on for group chats that will also provide a better solution for this - https://jami.net/swarm-introducing-a-new-generation-of-group-conversations/ https://jami.net/swarm-introducing-a-new-generation-of-group... ...
  - frereubu 6y ago
    It's too late. I've already spent all my social capital moving those people over, and it'll take at least two years to build that back up again. I don't mean to be too negative about this because I'm sure you're suggesting this in good faith, but nobody is going to switch to something that literally none of them will have heard about. Whether a particular technical solution is the best or not will never trump network effects when trying to move 50+ non-technical people over to a new messaging app.
    - webmobdev 6y ago
      Yeah, that's a real issue - the network effect that locks in people to popular messaging services.
rapnie 6y ago
> I spent a few weeks recently persuading two relatively large groups of non-technical people (50+ people in each) to move from WhatsApp to Signal Yes, I had informally announced my network that I'd move from Whatsapp to Signal - which I already used - and was just planning to make formal announcement to all my contacts, and install an autoresponder (Watomatic) on Whatsapp with reminders to reach me on Signal. But I'm holding off now, not sure what to do. I haven't accepted Whatsapp's new privacy policy yet, so I guess will continue using that for a while longer. Considering if Matrix wouldn't be a better choice as my next default messenger.
- webmobdev 6y ago
  Seriously consider GNU Jami - https://jami.net/ https://jami.net/ ...
  - Kim_Bruning 6y ago
    I installed it briefly (it's on f-droid, big plus!) , but it doesn't seem to have any way built in to easily find anyone to actually talk to?
    - webmobdev 6y ago
      Yeah, it's like the old Yahoo / MSN / ICQ messenger model - you have to add the users after finding out their unique user name / id.
- Koliakis 6y ago
  > Considering if Matrix wouldn't be a better choice as my next default messenger From what I've seen, Matrix is far worse metadata-wise than Signal. If Signal is bad, Matrix is worse.
  - jakecopp 6y ago
    > From what I've seen, Matrix is far worse metadata-wise than Signal What have you seen? I haven't come across anything to suggest this.
thecrash 6y ago
> why not create a separate "Signal Wallet" app or something? Although even that won't help the fact that it will tarnish the "Signal" brand in the eyes of many. Signal is not a startup looking to get acquired or a private tech company fighting for market share. It's a non-profit foundation which develops software to advance certain goals. It's not just trying to please its users to make profit, it's trying to change society. This is actually the reason Signal was able to disrupt the messaging space at a time when e2ee for messaging was unheard of in mainstream apps. They make design decisions not based on what makes users comfortable, but what they think the world needs. Maybe they're right and maybe they're wrong, but I think their core motivation is a lot more trustworthy than that of WhatsApp or any other major tech company.
bubblethink 6y ago
>I spent a few weeks recently persuading two relatively large groups of non-technical people And that's why tech evangelism with deep personal interest is a flawed premise. People need to find their own thing. If these people got by with their lives so far, they will figure shit out. Your investment is only setting things up for friction and disappointment. Not to mention, you will become the tech support guy in all such endeavours.

cageface 6y ago

I finally managed to move a big chunk of my friends over to Signal after almost a year of gentle but steady encouragement. Now I wish I hadn't bothered. I'm sure I won't be able to get them to move again and I've lost my confidence that any other new solution will be trustworthy. Maybe the devil you know in WhatsApp is better than more nasty surprises like this?

webmobdev 6y ago
GNU Jami - https://jami.net/ https://jami.net/ - is what you needed to promote. There's a very good reason most of the commercial messengers never mention it when they compare themselves to other messengers ... it's the obvious winner.
- raspyberr 6y ago
  I think Jami is great. Not having offline messages would be a pretty killer disadvantage to regular people though right?
  - webmobdev 6y ago
    Offline messaging is indeed a challenge on such distributed services that avoid any central servers. Currently messages are only cached for around 10 minutes in the DHT network before they are discarded. The way Jami currently handles delivery of such messages is to cache the message on the sender's device, and send it as soon the recipient of the message comes online. This ofcourse requires the sender to be online as much as possible. Beta testing is currently going on for group chats that will also provide a better solution for this - https://jami.net/swarm-introducing-a-new-generation-of-group-conversations/ https://jami.net/swarm-introducing-a-new-generation-of-group... ...
- frereubu 6y ago
  It's too late. I've already spent all my social capital moving those people over, and it'll take at least two years to build that back up again. I don't mean to be too negative about this because I'm sure you're suggesting this in good faith, but nobody is going to switch to something that literally none of them will have heard about. Whether a particular technical solution is the best or not will never trump network effects when trying to move 50+ non-technical people over to a new messaging app.
  - webmobdev 6y ago
    Yeah, that's a real issue - the network effect that locks in people to popular messaging services.

rapnie 6y ago

> I spent a few weeks recently persuading two relatively large groups of non-technical people (50+ people in each) to move from WhatsApp to Signal Yes, I had informally announced my network that I'd move from Whatsapp to Signal - which I already used - and was just planning to make formal announcement to all my contacts, and install an autoresponder (Watomatic) on Whatsapp with reminders to reach me on Signal. But I'm holding off now, not sure what to do. I haven't accepted Whatsapp's new privacy policy yet, so I guess will continue using that for a while longer. Considering if Matrix wouldn't be a better choice as my next default messenger.

webmobdev 6y ago
Seriously consider GNU Jami - https://jami.net/ https://jami.net/ ...
- Kim_Bruning 6y ago
  I installed it briefly (it's on f-droid, big plus!) , but it doesn't seem to have any way built in to easily find anyone to actually talk to?
  - webmobdev 6y ago
    Yeah, it's like the old Yahoo / MSN / ICQ messenger model - you have to add the users after finding out their unique user name / id.
Koliakis 6y ago
> Considering if Matrix wouldn't be a better choice as my next default messenger From what I've seen, Matrix is far worse metadata-wise than Signal. If Signal is bad, Matrix is worse.
- jakecopp 6y ago
  > From what I've seen, Matrix is far worse metadata-wise than Signal What have you seen? I haven't come across anything to suggest this.

thecrash 6y ago

> why not create a separate "Signal Wallet" app or something? Although even that won't help the fact that it will tarnish the "Signal" brand in the eyes of many. Signal is not a startup looking to get acquired or a private tech company fighting for market share. It's a non-profit foundation which develops software to advance certain goals. It's not just trying to please its users to make profit, it's trying to change society. This is actually the reason Signal was able to disrupt the messaging space at a time when e2ee for messaging was unheard of in mainstream apps. They make design decisions not based on what makes users comfortable, but what they think the world needs. Maybe they're right and maybe they're wrong, but I think their core motivation is a lot more trustworthy than that of WhatsApp or any other major tech company.

bubblethink 6y ago

>I spent a few weeks recently persuading two relatively large groups of non-technical people And that's why tech evangelism with deep personal interest is a flawed premise. People need to find their own thing. If these people got by with their lives so far, they will figure shit out. Your investment is only setting things up for friction and disappointment. Not to mention, you will become the tech support guy in all such endeavours.