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If this guy was a lawyer representing me in a court, I be in jail by noon. His defense seems to call on the reader's (jury) optimistic nature too much when the
by freebuju 6y ago
If this guy was a lawyer representing me in a court, I be in jail by noon. His defense seems to call on the reader's (jury) optimistic nature too much when the stakes on the line are cut and dry.
All jokes aside, excusing Signal for doing this would be bad. For the many users who would be exposed to the potential security threats that abound with this new payment integrations. Am no crypto-head but I've seen negative criticism too about this new coin being added.
Signal seems to have built a good reputation of trust among privacy communities, despite having questionable anchors such as requirement of phone numbers for use and trusting only their centralized server. This sudden change in direction puts this app in even more shakier grounds.
I'm glad the true intentions behind this app are now coming to light.
More scrutiny is best for Signal.
- qqii 6y agoNot to excuse signal but has the response really been justified for a beta feature being tested in a single country? The signal press release and activity on the forums makes it clear that they're asking for feedback. Their intentions were never hidden either, you can see interviews dating 2017 thst matches their current stance.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoThey’re asking for feedback? Then the response is justified. If you’re doing payment processing then you need to abide by AML and KYC laws, which are incompatible with secure messaging.
- qqii 6y agoThey're not doing payment proceeding, it's just a wallet.
- davidgerard 6y agoIf money moves over the network, it's payment processing. I urge you to review FinCEN guidance on "convertible virtual currencies". https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20CVC%20Guidance%20FINAL.pdf https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20... Similar regulations apply in most of the developed world. FATF regulations on virtual currencies only get tighter.
- 3np 6y agoI did review this and my understanding is that for “self-hosted” wallet apps like this where the keys are on users devices and there is no custody, Signal is clearly not classified as a VASP/payment processor. Care to point to the contradictory section? Because that would be drastic and contrary to anything I’ve heard.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoAh, yeah right, looks like I've got my terminology and assumptions confused. That PDF linked above ( https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20CVC%20Guidance%20FINAL.pdf https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20... ) would indicate Signal would be a 'money transmitter' rather than 'payment processor'. Is that correct, or am I still confused.
- 3np 6y agoQuoted from above PDF 1.2.1: > FinCEN’s regulations define the term “money transmitter” to include a “person that provides money transmission services,” or “any other person engaged in the transfer of funds.” A “transmittor,” on the other hand, is “[t]he sender of the first transmittal order in a transmittal of funds. The term transmittor includes an originator, except where the transmittor’s financial institution is a financial institution or foreign financial agency other than a bank or foreign bank.” As long as Signal or its servers don't itself take part in transmission (which they wouldn't as long as the Signal app acts as a real user-side wallet and client) or trades/converts assets on behalf of the users, they should be exempt of this regulation. Say what you want about this regulation, but so far I find it reasonable; as long as you as a business don't touch crypto assets or private keys either as issuer, key custodian, or transmitter but simply provide the wallet/node software, you're in the clear. Unless Signal acts in bad faith, I see no way they would fall under scope of Fincen regulation wrt MobileCoin. IANAL etc.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y agoOk, thanks for clarifying this, I feel like I understand better what's going on now and feel more comfortable with it. Thanks again
- 3np 6y agoIs Signal doing payment processing here? Like issuing or selling MobileCoin? If it’s just a non-custodial wallet then they’d be in the clear.