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I think there is a version of the story that the West somehow doesn’t hear a lot about. In Mainland China, the sudden interference of the government is attribu

by k_sze 6y ago

I think there is a version of the story that the West somehow doesn’t hear a lot about. In Mainland China, the sudden interference of the government is attributed to the discovery of the stake of Jiang Zemin’s faction in Ant Group. It’s not a direct stake, but obfuscated through a chain of ownerships. JZM’s faction is nowadays widely seen in Mainland China as being full of corruption and selfish agenda. Naturally, President Xi doesn’t want to see the influence of JZM’s faction over something as large as Ant Group, so the government decided to halt the IPO before it got too big.

dkural 6y ago
Why wouldn't the west want to see this? If a former politician the government dislikes owns shares in a company, the government should not simply punish the company - including all the other shareholders, many of whom are small retail investors and pension funds! If a former corrupt politician is the real issue, it needs to prove in an independent court there is corruption; and not punish some third party.
- k_sze 6y ago
  > If a former politician the government dislikes owns shares in a company, the government should not simply punish the company - including all the other shareholders, many of whom are small retail investors and pension funds! If a former corrupt politician is the real issue, it needs to prove in an independent court there is corruption; and not punish some third party. The only thing I can say is: “That’s just not the way politics works in China.”
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
    I will add to this a parahrase from a person I personally dislike: John Bolton. It goes something like this. When presenting their case, communist dictatorships tend blame things on mythical hardliners. Here too we have a scapegoat. The theme is different, but the tone is so familiar. That's not a shot at communist dictatorships. They do it, because as a negotiating tactic it tends to work. It is not unlike telling salesman you need to run something by your wife.
jhvkjhk 6y ago
> I think there is a version of the story that the West somehow doesn’t hear a lot about. The east doesn’t hear a lot about your version too. Do you have proof about the elderly’s stake in Ant Group?
- k_sze 6y ago
  Here is one source (in Chinese though): https://tw.appledaily.com/international/20210217/2TSNJAXQZRGXPATBSEPQ45AAE4/ https://tw.appledaily.com/international/20210217/2TSNJAXQZRG...
dillondoyle 6y ago
Are there any news sources corroborating this alleged corruption? The only links i see for "Jiang Zemin Corruption" are epoch times, which I guess is weird in itself falun gong owns it; sounds like Zemin was instrumental in their persecution... My point is Xi's crackdown to consolidate power has been widely reported and 'corruption' has been used to silence critics and anyone opposing Xi's power play. I definitely do know not much on this topic but I also can't find any legit sources.
- east2west 6y ago
  Actually, there is a Wall Street journal article about it. You can google it. "China Blocked Jack Ma’s Ant IPO After Investigation Revealed Likely Beneficiaries" There has been wild speculation about the source behind this story, including that Xi's faction provided details to WSJ since no one else had all the details.
  - dillondoyle 6y ago
    Thank you! That was an interesting read It's so hard to get to the actual truth where CCP is involved. I'm sure there is actual corruption - hear about it on the low level personal stories of manufacturing businesses working with HN commenters. But it's also used as an excuse to sideline potential opposition. The byline starts it off ha: "Well-connected Chinese power players, including some with links to political families that represent a potential challenge to President Xi" "Mr. Xi has used the antigraft crusade to target both actual corruption as well as to strengthen his own hold on power." The article gave me some new insight I think in showing how corruption could be viewed by the party as anything that threatens the party's power and their all important stability - a different definition than my perspective; like the kind of nouveau riche spend bragging and Saudi 'prince' instagram type behavior alluded to in the article

by k_sze 6y ago

dkural 6y ago

Why wouldn't the west want to see this? If a former politician the government dislikes owns shares in a company, the government should not simply punish the company - including all the other shareholders, many of whom are small retail investors and pension funds! If a former corrupt politician is the real issue, it needs to prove in an independent court there is corruption; and not punish some third party.

k_sze 6y ago
> If a former politician the government dislikes owns shares in a company, the government should not simply punish the company - including all the other shareholders, many of whom are small retail investors and pension funds! If a former corrupt politician is the real issue, it needs to prove in an independent court there is corruption; and not punish some third party. The only thing I can say is: “That’s just not the way politics works in China.”
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  I will add to this a parahrase from a person I personally dislike: John Bolton. It goes something like this. When presenting their case, communist dictatorships tend blame things on mythical hardliners. Here too we have a scapegoat. The theme is different, but the tone is so familiar. That's not a shot at communist dictatorships. They do it, because as a negotiating tactic it tends to work. It is not unlike telling salesman you need to run something by your wife.

jhvkjhk 6y ago

> I think there is a version of the story that the West somehow doesn’t hear a lot about. The east doesn’t hear a lot about your version too. Do you have proof about the elderly’s stake in Ant Group?

k_sze 6y ago
Here is one source (in Chinese though): https://tw.appledaily.com/international/20210217/2TSNJAXQZRGXPATBSEPQ45AAE4/ https://tw.appledaily.com/international/20210217/2TSNJAXQZRG...

dillondoyle 6y ago

Are there any news sources corroborating this alleged corruption? The only links i see for "Jiang Zemin Corruption" are epoch times, which I guess is weird in itself falun gong owns it; sounds like Zemin was instrumental in their persecution... My point is Xi's crackdown to consolidate power has been widely reported and 'corruption' has been used to silence critics and anyone opposing Xi's power play. I definitely do know not much on this topic but I also can't find any legit sources.

east2west 6y ago
Actually, there is a Wall Street journal article about it. You can google it. "China Blocked Jack Ma’s Ant IPO After Investigation Revealed Likely Beneficiaries" There has been wild speculation about the source behind this story, including that Xi's faction provided details to WSJ since no one else had all the details.
- dillondoyle 6y ago
  Thank you! That was an interesting read It's so hard to get to the actual truth where CCP is involved. I'm sure there is actual corruption - hear about it on the low level personal stories of manufacturing businesses working with HN commenters. But it's also used as an excuse to sideline potential opposition. The byline starts it off ha: "Well-connected Chinese power players, including some with links to political families that represent a potential challenge to President Xi" "Mr. Xi has used the antigraft crusade to target both actual corruption as well as to strengthen his own hold on power." The article gave me some new insight I think in showing how corruption could be viewed by the party as anything that threatens the party's power and their all important stability - a different definition than my perspective; like the kind of nouveau riche spend bragging and Saudi 'prince' instagram type behavior alluded to in the article