4 ms·

I dunno, I don’t see a problem with progressive enhancement of a dumb device: Clearly, don’t control the screecher with a web-connected microcontroller. But if

• brudgers 6y ago
  The reason it’s a fucking dumb idea is in no small part because it doesn’t conform to our ordinary pattern recognition of really fucking dumb ideas. The Nest could be disabled by waving at it...It was a feature. There are smoke alarms you can connect to a central alarm panel. Alarm panels that can be monitored remotely. And monitoring services that will call you when there is an alarm. The difference is each element prioritizes life safety by conforming to life safety standards. An important dimension of these standards is saving the lives of firefighters. When everyone is out of the structure they don’t need to go into an actively burning building. If you are out of earshot of a smoke alarm, what can you do besides turn it off? Home IoT devices are not known for their security. Nor are they known for long term support. The article itself demonstrates that... A smoke alarm is not a consumer is always right device. There’s nothing stopping an Alexa skill that responds to the noise of a smoke alarm with a text to your phone.
  • edent 6y ago
    > If you are out of earshot of a smoke alarm, what can you do besides turn it off? Come home. Or call the fire brigade. Or ask a neighbour to check. Or log into your home cameras to check for smoke.
    • brudgers 6y ago
      None of those gets anyone out of the house. None increases life safety. And people don't reason well about fire when it occurs. Your second alternative ought to be the first. But it isn't what you thought of first. That's normal when it comes to structures on fire. Why "come home" is before calling the fire service is because normal inclination is to want to save building contents from burning. On the way there, you would make a mental list. Arrive ready to go inside. It's how we are wired. Smoke alarms are the way they are not based on theory. They are the way they are based on experience. Not lay experience. Professional experience of fire fighters counting corpses and conducting after action debriefings and writing reports. An HN related example, http://www2.oaklandnet.com/oakca1/groups/ceda/documents/report/oak064503.pdf http://www2.oaklandnet.com/oakca1/groups/ceda/documents/repo... A person will run out of fingers and toes counting all the obviously bad ideas that contributed to the thirty six fatalities. And counting all the individuals who poorly assessed the life safety risk for the sake of convenience and lifestyle. Again, it's how we are wired. And why smoke alarms have to be required by law.
      • edent 6y ago
        The Nest sounds a loud alarm - that would wake people up and get them out of the house. If I got an alert, I could call my partner and make sure they were already safe. If I was at home and had my headphones on, my phone would vibrate. That will get my attention in a way that a traditional alarm won't. I also hooked my Nest up to my Lifx bulbs - so they'll all turn on when an alert sounds. Again, pretty good at getting my attention and helping me see. I'm not really sure why you're so against the idea. They do everything a traditional alarm does - but they add a few features which I find quite useful. To reiterate - a Nest Protect is a traditional smoke alarm, but it _also_ has WiFi. As I said in my blog post, I wondered why other companies don't sell them. If, as you say, we're hard-wired to want these sort of "useless" things - surely there should be a market? I hope you have a calm and pleasant weekend.
        • brudgers 6y ago
          I have an interest in life safety. Partially by professional experience and training. Personally from having knocked on a neighbor’s door because their house was on fire. Family member babysitting three kids. Living room filling with smoke. I said “the house is on fire. You need to get out.” The adult had lit a wood fire in a gas fireplace. And was trying to put out the flames that were showing at the mantel. Fires burn upward. It had burned down the chimney that far. I’d seen the flames outside. That’s why I said “stop the car.” He was still not quite ready to admit defeat. So I directed the kids and they went outside. I said, “we need to go.” And turned. Fortunately they followed. We were all across the street waiting for the fire department. My beloved called 911 from the car when I got out to knock. That fire department has a five minute response time. Before they arrived the youngest child mentioned their turtle. The adult started past me saying they would get some clothes too. I stuck out my arm and said “it’s not worth dying for.” They hesitated for a moment and then the attic flashed over with back draft. And the sound was a whoosh. And a minute or two later the fire fighters arrived. I only knew the psychology from professional experience. I learned from an old fire inspector named Roy who patiently explained how stupid I was in trying to design an ethane distribution system for a research lab by telling me some of the things he had seen people do. As cool as all those things you want sound, they are not as cool as not dying. I didn’t want Roy to tell me my design was dumb. But he did and I am thankful for it. You wondered where the devices went. I told you. It’s unfortunate you don’t recognize the difference between opinion and informed opinion. Particularly since you write a relatively popular blog...popular because it contains informed opinions. This is not among them. And unlike others the consequences are potentially lethal. Fun fact: when I knocked on the door, one or more smoke alarms were going off.