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> Actually, we wouldn't need these dirty perversions with notifications if we had a proper background mode for apps. Like, you know, proper computers had for ma

> Actually, we wouldn't need these dirty perversions with notifications if we had a proper background mode for apps. Like, you know, proper computers had for maybe 60 years. It's worth noting, however, that desktop and laptop PCs have a surplus of energy relative to mobile phones, so it's no big deal if there's a bunch of processes running in the background doing their thing… usually, anyway, because on PCs it's also shockingly common for background processes to misbehave and consume far more resources than they have any right to. Point in case, the daemon for my Logitech mouse will sometimes consume 120% CPU for no apparent reason for extended periods if I allow it to run. I could see an argument for extending background capabilities in iOS while also heavily also reducing their potential for bad behavior, though. For example, allowing apps to run in the background indefinitely, but on low power cores only with heavily capped CPU and memory consumption, along with a new Settings page that shows a list of persistent background processes and gives the user direct control over them.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
I agree. User should decide, how he will use his battery power. If an app requires background running, it should be allowed to, with full control over data and battery used. That's all users need.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
Or, give people easy to use task manager that shows background processes, with big buttons labeled "kill", and "kill and keep down". Android doesn't have anything like it either. It's my number 1 complaint about smartphone experience ever since I bought my first one: the phone actively refuses to give user insight and control over what's running on their device.
- masom 6y ago
  > Android doesn't have anything like it either. Uh, it sure does through the applications section. You can see running services, which ones are taking battery, and stop/disable those as well.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    Recently, yes. Wasn't really the case for most of the lifetime of Android project, at least if my memory serves. Also even today, the application section is barely usable as it is. Contrast that with e.g. the task manager on Windows. It's not a pinnacle of UI, but it's easy to use, communicates necessary information, and gets the job done.
    - grosswait 6y ago
      In early android we had more insight and control over processes, but unfortunately we lost that supposedly due to abuse by apps (which seems highly likely)
m-p-3 6y ago
Can we stop making phones that are so thin that they struggle to be powered for a full day under moderate use?
- kitsunesoba 6y ago
  I think it may be best if there's a wide variety of battery capacities in phones, rather than a raised minimum capacity across the bar. If battery power is universally plentiful, you'll get something of a road expansion effect where developers simply take advantage of cheap power and bloat apps to fill the added capacity, returning you to square one with phones struggling to last a day. So with that in mind, the best case scenario may be for manufacturers to keep their current thin models but also introduce new ultra-high-capacity models, so apps are optimized reasonably well and users can take full advantage of the extra capacity.
jtbayly 6y ago
My M1 MacBook Air unexpectedly gave me a battery low warning today after probably 4 hours of use. I quickly checked Activity Monitor and Dropbox was not responding and using huge amounts of CPU. Yeah. This is a problem.
- karmelapple 6y ago
  Did you happen to not have an internet connection at the time? I noticed years ago Dropbox would spike CPU usage on my Mac when WiFi was off or couldn’t reach the outside world, like when on airplane WiFi but without paying for internet access. I had hoped they fixed that...
  - jtbayly 6y ago
    wifi was on and working
enos_feedler 6y ago
I think the use cases for running in background indefinitely are so few that it's better to build special purpose APIs rather than general processing on low power cores with caps. The settings page would help but I think it is too complex for the average user to think about. Mobile phones are not PCs and we shouldn't be striving to make them more PC like, even if we can do so under mobile power constraints.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago

I agree. User should decide, how he will use his battery power. If an app requires background running, it should be allowed to, with full control over data and battery used. That's all users need.

TeMPOraL 6y ago

Or, give people easy to use task manager that shows background processes, with big buttons labeled "kill", and "kill and keep down". Android doesn't have anything like it either. It's my number 1 complaint about smartphone experience ever since I bought my first one: the phone actively refuses to give user insight and control over what's running on their device.

masom 6y ago
> Android doesn't have anything like it either. Uh, it sure does through the applications section. You can see running services, which ones are taking battery, and stop/disable those as well.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Recently, yes. Wasn't really the case for most of the lifetime of Android project, at least if my memory serves. Also even today, the application section is barely usable as it is. Contrast that with e.g. the task manager on Windows. It's not a pinnacle of UI, but it's easy to use, communicates necessary information, and gets the job done.
  - grosswait 6y ago
    In early android we had more insight and control over processes, but unfortunately we lost that supposedly due to abuse by apps (which seems highly likely)

m-p-3 6y ago

Can we stop making phones that are so thin that they struggle to be powered for a full day under moderate use?

kitsunesoba 6y ago
I think it may be best if there's a wide variety of battery capacities in phones, rather than a raised minimum capacity across the bar. If battery power is universally plentiful, you'll get something of a road expansion effect where developers simply take advantage of cheap power and bloat apps to fill the added capacity, returning you to square one with phones struggling to last a day. So with that in mind, the best case scenario may be for manufacturers to keep their current thin models but also introduce new ultra-high-capacity models, so apps are optimized reasonably well and users can take full advantage of the extra capacity.

jtbayly 6y ago

My M1 MacBook Air unexpectedly gave me a battery low warning today after probably 4 hours of use. I quickly checked Activity Monitor and Dropbox was not responding and using huge amounts of CPU. Yeah. This is a problem.

karmelapple 6y ago
Did you happen to not have an internet connection at the time? I noticed years ago Dropbox would spike CPU usage on my Mac when WiFi was off or couldn’t reach the outside world, like when on airplane WiFi but without paying for internet access. I had hoped they fixed that...
- jtbayly 6y ago
  wifi was on and working

enos_feedler 6y ago

I think the use cases for running in background indefinitely are so few that it's better to build special purpose APIs rather than general processing on low power cores with caps. The settings page would help but I think it is too complex for the average user to think about. Mobile phones are not PCs and we shouldn't be striving to make them more PC like, even if we can do so under mobile power constraints.