5 ms·

I've read both a few of the negotiation books (Getting to yes, Getting past no) and Five Dysfunctions and I don't know that I'd recommend them, to be honest. M

by occz 6y ago

I've read both a few of the negotiation books (Getting to yes, Getting past no) and Five Dysfunctions and I don't know that I'd recommend them, to be honest. My beef with Five Dysfunctions is primarily the book recommending MBTI. MBTI has the predictive value of horoscopes, more or less. Really hard to take anything said seriously at that point. The negotiation-series has some value, and has helped me succeed in some negotiations, but I'd honestly recommend Never split the difference as a substitute. Having read that book instead would probably have saved me more than a few poor outcomes in negotiations. Finally I'd like to recommend Peopleware - surely one of - if not the definitively - best book I've read for professional purposes.

mike555 6y ago
I’ve read five dysfunctions and can’t say I remember anything about personality types (MBTI). To me it was about persistence honesty and pragmatism. Loved it.
- occz 6y ago
  It's mentioned both in the fable-part and the epilogue.
davideous 6y ago
Five Dysfunctions of a Team completely was absolutely revolutionary for me and my team. It's not about MBTI at all, but MBTI is just a tool it mentions to help with dysfunction one. Here are the five dysfunctions: The foundational dysfunction is a lack of trust -- trust defined as belief that your skill weaknesses and deficiencies will not be used against you. So people conceal weaknesses and don't ask for help from each other, etc. This leads to fear of (healthy, productive) conflict -- you don't hash things out, but rather any meaningful discussion gets suppressed. Creates an environment where back-channeling and politics thrive, etc. This leads to lack of commitment -- the team has not really had heathy, productive conflict/discussion so they don't buy into decisions. There is ambiguity about direction and priorities. This leads to avoidance of accountability. This leads to inattention to results. Here's a high-level overview: https://www.executiveagenda.com/application/files/3215/6401/6016/fivedysfunctions.pdf https://www.executiveagenda.com/application/files/3215/6401/...
- occz 6y ago
  As mentioned - I have read the book, and I'm not opposed to the some of the ideas in the book. However, the endorsement of MBTI is just really damn hard for me to swallow.
  - davideous 6y ago
    Fair enough. In your earlier comment you mentioned: > MBTI has the predictive value of horoscopes, more or less My understanding of MBTI is that it's not supposed to be predictive, but it helps you understand a different person's preferences or view-point. Preferences don't necessarily predict behavior. Understanding the J vs P preference difference was revolutionary early in my marriage. I'm P and my wife is J, and our different preferences on that dimension helped explain much of our conflict. And understanding her preference helped me be more considerate and loving to her. MBTI helped me understand her (not predict her). When I read a description of an MBTI type for someone I know really well, about half of it rings true -- but then reading and talking through it together sparks a great conversation where we learn a lot about each other. The book does recommend using a qualified MBTI coach/trainer, so that it's not mis-used. Hope this $0.02 is helpful.
    - Guthur 6y ago
      I'm assuming the predictive power is in relation to fact the MBTI has been shown to have low repeatability in the test results, which undermines its ability to predict the actual personality of the individual in question.
zwayhowder 6y ago
MBTI and the dozens of alternatives aren't gospel, but they are a useful way of framing some conversations, especially when the people have no other shared framework to come from. I'm much rather someone tells me they are a an ENTJ than a Virgo. At least the ENTJ will understand sometimes they need to change their approach unlike the Virgo who (in my experience) says "this is how I behave and you can't do anything about it because it's the universe".
leetrout 6y ago
MBTI is Meyers Briggs Type Indicator; personality types. For anyone else not familiar with the acronym
jacobian 6y ago
Ha, I'd totally forgotten that Five Dysfunctions talks about MBTI -- I think I'd blocked it out. I completely agree that MBTI is total bullshit. Thanks for pointing it out. I think this illustrates something about business books in general: even when they contain a really good idea, they often also contain other less-good ideas. I think I tend to read business books really critically, and am comfortable remembering the lessons that are useful and ignoring the ones that aren't. But I should add a note to my reading list about MBTI, least others think I'm recommending it and take it seriously.

by occz 6y ago

mike555 6y ago

I’ve read five dysfunctions and can’t say I remember anything about personality types (MBTI). To me it was about persistence honesty and pragmatism. Loved it.

occz 6y ago
It's mentioned both in the fable-part and the epilogue.

davideous 6y ago

Five Dysfunctions of a Team completely was absolutely revolutionary for me and my team. It's not about MBTI at all, but MBTI is just a tool it mentions to help with dysfunction one. Here are the five dysfunctions: The foundational dysfunction is a lack of trust -- trust defined as belief that your skill weaknesses and deficiencies will not be used against you. So people conceal weaknesses and don't ask for help from each other, etc. This leads to fear of (healthy, productive) conflict -- you don't hash things out, but rather any meaningful discussion gets suppressed. Creates an environment where back-channeling and politics thrive, etc. This leads to lack of commitment -- the team has not really had heathy, productive conflict/discussion so they don't buy into decisions. There is ambiguity about direction and priorities. This leads to avoidance of accountability. This leads to inattention to results. Here's a high-level overview: https://www.executiveagenda.com/application/files/3215/6401/6016/fivedysfunctions.pdf https://www.executiveagenda.com/application/files/3215/6401/...

occz 6y ago
As mentioned - I have read the book, and I'm not opposed to the some of the ideas in the book. However, the endorsement of MBTI is just really damn hard for me to swallow.
- davideous 6y ago
  Fair enough. In your earlier comment you mentioned: > MBTI has the predictive value of horoscopes, more or less My understanding of MBTI is that it's not supposed to be predictive, but it helps you understand a different person's preferences or view-point. Preferences don't necessarily predict behavior. Understanding the J vs P preference difference was revolutionary early in my marriage. I'm P and my wife is J, and our different preferences on that dimension helped explain much of our conflict. And understanding her preference helped me be more considerate and loving to her. MBTI helped me understand her (not predict her). When I read a description of an MBTI type for someone I know really well, about half of it rings true -- but then reading and talking through it together sparks a great conversation where we learn a lot about each other. The book does recommend using a qualified MBTI coach/trainer, so that it's not mis-used. Hope this $0.02 is helpful.
  - Guthur 6y ago
    I'm assuming the predictive power is in relation to fact the MBTI has been shown to have low repeatability in the test results, which undermines its ability to predict the actual personality of the individual in question.

zwayhowder 6y ago

MBTI and the dozens of alternatives aren't gospel, but they are a useful way of framing some conversations, especially when the people have no other shared framework to come from. I'm much rather someone tells me they are a an ENTJ than a Virgo. At least the ENTJ will understand sometimes they need to change their approach unlike the Virgo who (in my experience) says "this is how I behave and you can't do anything about it because it's the universe".

leetrout 6y ago

MBTI is Meyers Briggs Type Indicator; personality types. For anyone else not familiar with the acronym

jacobian 6y ago

Ha, I'd totally forgotten that Five Dysfunctions talks about MBTI -- I think I'd blocked it out. I completely agree that MBTI is total bullshit. Thanks for pointing it out. I think this illustrates something about business books in general: even when they contain a really good idea, they often also contain other less-good ideas. I think I tend to read business books really critically, and am comfortable remembering the lessons that are useful and ignoring the ones that aren't. But I should add a note to my reading list about MBTI, least others think I'm recommending it and take it seriously.