8 ms·

We are rapidly approaching a point where you cannot do commerce without a bank card of some sort. My daughter is old enough to walk to the ice cream store with

We are rapidly approaching a point where you cannot do commerce without a bank card of some sort. My daughter is old enough to walk to the ice cream store with her friends, but they will not sell her any ice cream unless she pays using a card. They are unable to except cash. I tried getting her a card, but none of the local banks would do it, and even the prepaid cards that you buy at supermarkets will not allow you to activate in your name unless you are a certain age. I finally found a card with FamZoo that worked for her, but it was way more difficult than it should have been finding a way for her to legally buy ice cream from that store. I am paying closer attention when I go to a brick and mortar store these days, and I am seeing more and more signs advising customers that their cash is no good there. This is a scourge that is starting to get out of control. My HOA advised me that I would only be able to pay them using a money transfer app. When I tried using it, it rejected my bank account information for some reason. I sent them a check with a letter explaining that their required method of payment didn't work for me. They didn't deposit the check, and then they tried charging me late fees. I had to go out of my way to escalate to resolve that. This is getting to the point that we will need some regulation to protect the right to pay for ordinary things like ice cream and HOA dues with cash and checks.

Theodores 5y ago
This is quaint. Some parts of the world - China - bypassed the whole credit card and went to QR codes for payment with your phone. Even in Europe there is progress over the USA. Chip and Pin is all some people have known, the idea that you should have a signature or a cheque is just unimaginable, only old people could remember that. Cash is not without its costs. Bitcoin isn't the answer. The credit cards take a slice of everything, what we really need is a government that can make a payment system work for everyone, the customer and the retailer, with nobody taking their slice or selling your data. It just needs will.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Supposedly, the US Federal Reserve is working on this: https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems.htm
tinus_hn 5y ago
I recall an article about an employer getting away with paying an employee in oil covered pennies.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- gizmo686 5y ago
  There is a requirement to accept cash as payment for debt. This does not apply to the typical retail case, where the seller can simply not proceed with the transaction.
  - toast0 5y ago
    If you order ice cream and it's scooped for you before you pay (as is customary in ice cream shoppes I've frequentrd), you have incurred a debt.
    - 120391583 5y ago
      Do they actually give you the ice cream before you pay?
      - Turing_Machine 5y ago
        Physical transfer doesn't really matter. Either you've incurred a debt (in which case they're legally required to take cash) or you haven't (in which case you're free to walk out of the store, leaving the ice cream to melt). The store would need to require that you pay before the scooping began to avoid this, IMO.
        120391583 5y ago
        Right, but if you've taken possession, you've definitely incurred a debt. If they've scooped the ice cream but haven't handed it to you, while there may technically be a debt at that point, I expect most stores would just throw the ice cream out if you insisted on paying with a payment method they don't accept.
throw_away98321 5y ago
We're currently living a pandemic and a lot of stores aren't accepting cash because they're wanting to avoid transfer of germs. I'm even observing hand sanitizer being rightfully used after needing to examine ID.
- ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
  Small, eccentric indie and mom and pop stores might be super strict about that. IDK, I just paid for drive through food with cash a couple hours ago, so I sorta feel like this particular dystopian scenario is not quite here yet.
ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
So the ice cream store will only accept actual credit cards, and not Amex or Visa gift cards you buy at the grocery store (I’m assuming you live in the US). That’s a very bizarre and odd scenario.
pengaru 5y ago
> My daughter is old enough to walk to the ice cream store with her friends, but they will not sell her any ice cream unless she pays using a card. They are unable to except cash. It should be illegal for any business to refuse cash payment, full stop. I've heard some cities have already passed laws in this vein, it should be made universal. Homeless people or otherwise marginalized groups are often limited to cash only transactions, that shouldn't mean they can't participate in commerce. Hell even just victims of identity theft can find themselves unable to get a bank account or credit card, cash should always be an option.
- crazygringo 5y ago
  > It should be illegal for any business to refuse cash payment, full stop. No. We should just have legislation ensuring that anyone can go to any post office or bank and exchange cash for a prepaid card. The same way you've been able to exchange cash for a money order at the post office for... well, as long as I've been alive, that's for sure. Managing physical cash and registers is a huge headache that costs businesses a lot of money (not to mention risk of violent crime), and just doesn't make any sense when less than 5% of your customers want to use it. Not to mention cash is unhygienic, takes energy and carbon to make, transport, and process, and constantly needs to be replenished. Let's not impede the future. Instead, let's help it along but make sure it works for everyone.
  - m463 5y ago
    I believe this would be used to subjugate people in the worst way. cash is concrete. People can count how much they have. They know how much they spend. They can give it to someone in the middle of nowhere away from computers. If we had cards, all kinds of tracking and tracing would be added. Civil forfeiture could happen while the cash card was in your pocket. There is just so much society would lose for the business convenience you're asking for.
    - leetcrew 5y ago
      there is a reasonable middle ground between "absolutely every business must accept physical cash" and "physical cash no longer exists". places that do a lot of cash business will naturally continue to accept cash as long as it exists. several business I patronize only accept cash. it's not some colossal injustice if the fancy coffee shop is plastic-only.
jml78 5y ago
If you are in the US, you can do Greenlight cards. Downside is the monthly fee.
prepend 5y ago
Get a better bank. Chase, Citi, WellsFargo, and USAA allow stored value kids debit card accounts. You can also just get a second credit card and give it to your kid and have your kid make purchases in your name since the ice cream shop isn’t likely to care. You could also load a card onto her phone and have her pay with that. Every 11 year old in my neighborhood in the US solved this problem, so I wish you the best of luck with your struggle.
- Spivak 5y ago
  Yeah I’m kinda confused about this story. I’ve had card tied to my parents’ account since I was like 8. I still have it even though I’m grown for emergencies.
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    some banks have a minimum age for authorized users of a card (usually 13 or 16). some don't have this requirement.
    - prepend 5y ago
      The banks I mentioned have a special product for kids under 13. For example USAA [0] allows any age kid, but they have to be 13 to use the web site. So you sign up for them, they get a card, you put money into it, they can’t use the web site. [0] https://www.usaa.com/inet/wc/youth-checking-account https://www.usaa.com/inet/wc/youth-checking-account
  - steelframe 5y ago
    > Yeah I’m kinda confused about this story. My bank doesn't issue cards to anyone under the age of 18, but in terms of customer service my bank is 1000% better than any of the ilk of Wells Fargo/BofA/etc., so I'm not going to change my bank just because the ice cream shop requires a bank card. Rather, she can use a FamZoo or Greenlight card if we feel like paying a monthly fee for the privilege of being able to buy ice cream from that one shop. But I'm starting to think it's not worth it, since there's a Trader Joe's around the corner that sells a better product and accepts cash.
vmception 5y ago
> pays with a check and couldn’t figure out how to get their child some plastic I was almost about to empathize but this is hilariously poor problem solving skills Sorry your experience leads you to this path The common denominator is your crappy bank
- steelframe 5y ago
  Wow, that was rude. For the record, I know how to get her plastic. There's literally one store right now where this is an issue for her, and I'm not going to jump through any hoops at all (like continuing to pay the monthly fee for a FamZoo card or switch banks) just to accommodate that store. And said "crappy bank" is a well-known investment bank. Supporting minor accounts isn't profitable for them.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Investment banks aren’t for consumer banking Opening a retail bank account isn’t much of a hoop to me
csomar 5y ago
I'm guessing you are in the US. Some states require that businesses accept cash. If you are in such state, then you should remind these businesses of the law.
sneak 5y ago
This is also quite a regional thing. Many large cities in the US, Las Vegas principally among them, still use and love cash everywhere. Europe is also pretty good about cash, at least the parts that aren't the uk and fennoscandia.
david38 5y ago
Sounds like grounds to sue.
CharlesW 5y ago
> I tried getting her a card, but none of the local banks would do it, and even the prepaid cards that you buy at supermarkets will not allow you to activate in your name unless you are a certain age. I know this comment doesn't address your absolutely legit larger concerns, but for anyone else in this situation: I'm having a good experience using Greenlight (https://www.greenlightcard.com/ https://www.greenlightcard.com/) as a solution for my pre-teen kids.

Theodores 5y ago

This is quaint. Some parts of the world - China - bypassed the whole credit card and went to QR codes for payment with your phone. Even in Europe there is progress over the USA. Chip and Pin is all some people have known, the idea that you should have a signature or a cheque is just unimaginable, only old people could remember that. Cash is not without its costs. Bitcoin isn't the answer. The credit cards take a slice of everything, what we really need is a government that can make a payment system work for everyone, the customer and the retailer, with nobody taking their slice or selling your data. It just needs will.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Supposedly, the US Federal Reserve is working on this: https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems.htm

tinus_hn 5y ago

I recall an article about an employer getting away with paying an employee in oil covered pennies.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gizmo686 5y ago
There is a requirement to accept cash as payment for debt. This does not apply to the typical retail case, where the seller can simply not proceed with the transaction.
- toast0 5y ago
  If you order ice cream and it's scooped for you before you pay (as is customary in ice cream shoppes I've frequentrd), you have incurred a debt.
  - 120391583 5y ago
    Do they actually give you the ice cream before you pay?
    - Turing_Machine 5y ago
      Physical transfer doesn't really matter. Either you've incurred a debt (in which case they're legally required to take cash) or you haven't (in which case you're free to walk out of the store, leaving the ice cream to melt). The store would need to require that you pay before the scooping began to avoid this, IMO.
      - 120391583 5y ago
        Right, but if you've taken possession, you've definitely incurred a debt. If they've scooped the ice cream but haven't handed it to you, while there may technically be a debt at that point, I expect most stores would just throw the ice cream out if you insisted on paying with a payment method they don't accept.

throw_away98321 5y ago

We're currently living a pandemic and a lot of stores aren't accepting cash because they're wanting to avoid transfer of germs. I'm even observing hand sanitizer being rightfully used after needing to examine ID.

ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
Small, eccentric indie and mom and pop stores might be super strict about that. IDK, I just paid for drive through food with cash a couple hours ago, so I sorta feel like this particular dystopian scenario is not quite here yet.

ZanyProgrammer 5y ago

So the ice cream store will only accept actual credit cards, and not Amex or Visa gift cards you buy at the grocery store (I’m assuming you live in the US). That’s a very bizarre and odd scenario.

pengaru 5y ago

> My daughter is old enough to walk to the ice cream store with her friends, but they will not sell her any ice cream unless she pays using a card. They are unable to except cash. It should be illegal for any business to refuse cash payment, full stop. I've heard some cities have already passed laws in this vein, it should be made universal. Homeless people or otherwise marginalized groups are often limited to cash only transactions, that shouldn't mean they can't participate in commerce. Hell even just victims of identity theft can find themselves unable to get a bank account or credit card, cash should always be an option.

crazygringo 5y ago
> It should be illegal for any business to refuse cash payment, full stop. No. We should just have legislation ensuring that anyone can go to any post office or bank and exchange cash for a prepaid card. The same way you've been able to exchange cash for a money order at the post office for... well, as long as I've been alive, that's for sure. Managing physical cash and registers is a huge headache that costs businesses a lot of money (not to mention risk of violent crime), and just doesn't make any sense when less than 5% of your customers want to use it. Not to mention cash is unhygienic, takes energy and carbon to make, transport, and process, and constantly needs to be replenished. Let's not impede the future. Instead, let's help it along but make sure it works for everyone.
- m463 5y ago
  I believe this would be used to subjugate people in the worst way. cash is concrete. People can count how much they have. They know how much they spend. They can give it to someone in the middle of nowhere away from computers. If we had cards, all kinds of tracking and tracing would be added. Civil forfeiture could happen while the cash card was in your pocket. There is just so much society would lose for the business convenience you're asking for.
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    there is a reasonable middle ground between "absolutely every business must accept physical cash" and "physical cash no longer exists". places that do a lot of cash business will naturally continue to accept cash as long as it exists. several business I patronize only accept cash. it's not some colossal injustice if the fancy coffee shop is plastic-only.

jml78 5y ago

If you are in the US, you can do Greenlight cards. Downside is the monthly fee.

prepend 5y ago

Get a better bank. Chase, Citi, WellsFargo, and USAA allow stored value kids debit card accounts. You can also just get a second credit card and give it to your kid and have your kid make purchases in your name since the ice cream shop isn’t likely to care. You could also load a card onto her phone and have her pay with that. Every 11 year old in my neighborhood in the US solved this problem, so I wish you the best of luck with your struggle.

Spivak 5y ago
Yeah I’m kinda confused about this story. I’ve had card tied to my parents’ account since I was like 8. I still have it even though I’m grown for emergencies.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  some banks have a minimum age for authorized users of a card (usually 13 or 16). some don't have this requirement.
  - prepend 5y ago
    The banks I mentioned have a special product for kids under 13. For example USAA [0] allows any age kid, but they have to be 13 to use the web site. So you sign up for them, they get a card, you put money into it, they can’t use the web site. [0] https://www.usaa.com/inet/wc/youth-checking-account https://www.usaa.com/inet/wc/youth-checking-account
- steelframe 5y ago
  > Yeah I’m kinda confused about this story. My bank doesn't issue cards to anyone under the age of 18, but in terms of customer service my bank is 1000% better than any of the ilk of Wells Fargo/BofA/etc., so I'm not going to change my bank just because the ice cream shop requires a bank card. Rather, she can use a FamZoo or Greenlight card if we feel like paying a monthly fee for the privilege of being able to buy ice cream from that one shop. But I'm starting to think it's not worth it, since there's a Trader Joe's around the corner that sells a better product and accepts cash.

vmception 5y ago

> pays with a check and couldn’t figure out how to get their child some plastic I was almost about to empathize but this is hilariously poor problem solving skills Sorry your experience leads you to this path The common denominator is your crappy bank

steelframe 5y ago
Wow, that was rude. For the record, I know how to get her plastic. There's literally one store right now where this is an issue for her, and I'm not going to jump through any hoops at all (like continuing to pay the monthly fee for a FamZoo card or switch banks) just to accommodate that store. And said "crappy bank" is a well-known investment bank. Supporting minor accounts isn't profitable for them.
- vmception 5y ago
  Investment banks aren’t for consumer banking Opening a retail bank account isn’t much of a hoop to me

csomar 5y ago

I'm guessing you are in the US. Some states require that businesses accept cash. If you are in such state, then you should remind these businesses of the law.

sneak 5y ago

This is also quite a regional thing. Many large cities in the US, Las Vegas principally among them, still use and love cash everywhere. Europe is also pretty good about cash, at least the parts that aren't the uk and fennoscandia.

david38 5y ago

Sounds like grounds to sue.

CharlesW 5y ago

> I tried getting her a card, but none of the local banks would do it, and even the prepaid cards that you buy at supermarkets will not allow you to activate in your name unless you are a certain age. I know this comment doesn't address your absolutely legit larger concerns, but for anyone else in this situation: I'm having a good experience using Greenlight (https://www.greenlightcard.com/ https://www.greenlightcard.com/) as a solution for my pre-teen kids.