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I find that the experience one has recruiting is directly related to where that person is interviewing which in turn is related to their caliber. On one extrem

I find that the experience one has recruiting is directly related to where that person is interviewing which in turn is related to their caliber. On one extreme, a very desirable dev has the luxury of ignoring all but the most thoughtful recruiter pings on LinkedIn. He can also tune out companies that are too small, not tech-focused, don't have a good reputation, whatever. The small remainder of recruiters and companies that he will speak to are much more likely to have their shit together and provide a solid recruiting experience. On the other hand, if someone doesn't have a ton of options, they end up being much less selective about whom they speak to and where they interview, in addition to being less likely to be recruited by the top players to begin with. I think this explains the dichotomy of why some people consistently have horrible experiences and some never have them. And then there's the "hint" that if you only have the horrible experiences, there is something you need to strategically change.

toast0 6y ago
> On one extreme, a very desirable dev has the luxury of ignoring all but the most thoughtful recruiter pings on LinkedIn. You've set your sights too low. A very desirable dev doesn't need to interface with LinkedIn at all.
- xyzelement 6y ago
  I can see how that could be true although seems silly to limit your inbound opportunities that way (my last 2 roles came via a LI reach-out so I am biased) What has been your path that landed you amazing highly paid roles and why do you think you're not missing out by not hearing from a broader set of companies?
  - toast0 6y ago
    Went to a small college in Milwaukee cause I knew someone going there on IRC and they had low admission standards. Got my job at Yahoo Travel via Topcoder referal (before LinkedIn existed). Worked there for seven years. Got many many many spams from LinkedIn to my yahoo-inc address when people uploaded the corporate address book and LinkedIn wouldn't let you unsubscribe without making an account. Made enough to pay a mortgage on a bay area house with a single income. Got recruited to WhatsApp by Brian Acton who was breifly my boss's boss at Yahoo. Worked there for not quite eight years. Made enough to retire comfortably. Could I have been more highly paid? Probably when I was working for Yahoo, I got a bigger salary when I moved to a startup. I doubt I could have found anything better post 2014 though. If I was looking now, I would probably look at selected company's hiring pages and/or through niche sites like HN's who's hiring etc.
    - xyzelement 6y ago
      Excellent story! My strategy is "the more inbound opportunity the better" so LI is my friend (with plenty of saying "no thank you") but it would be very hard to argue that your approach doesn't work well.
- ghaff 6y ago
  I have responded to a few recruiters over time. But every job since the one I was recruited on-campus for in grad school came from reaching out to someone I knew at the company. (Not a developer but in tech.) ADDED: I've been in a sufficiently specialized subset of the industry for a long time that random recruiter emails aren't likely to be interesting. And I know a lot of people at different companies. So I have pretty much a bare bones profile on LinkedIn as I'm not really looking for inbound pings.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  Even worst: a lot of the best devs out there are completely invisible. They get offers long before they even decide to switch jobs. They simply never had a LinkedIn account to begin with. It's a friend that calls them to tell them about the new project they are about to hire for. Companies can either spend more on recruiting fees, or more on better devs that will try to get their friends hired...
  - vitaflo 6y ago
    >Companies can either spend more on recruiting fees, or more on better devs that will try to get their friends hired... Yup, half of the team I'm on is made up of people who have worked together in the past and are good. That's how I got the job and how I get all my gigs. I haven't had to really interview for a job since 2002. LinkedIn is entirely unnecessary when you have a large enough network of people who enjoy working with you. The jobs come to you.
    - atregir 6y ago
      This is not so much the case in my experience (Europe). People here do not start new companies that frequently (as is the culture in the US, I think). Many people switch companies and while they can refer you at their new company (and they do), you still have to go through the interviewing process. My own experience: My first job I was approached by one of my Uni professors that had a small company, to work for them. Second job (while still doing my masters at Uni) I had to go through an actual exam for a big company in my country. I found out about it at the Uni (they'd post everywhere they were looking). Third job found on Stack Overflow. Current job found on LinkedIn.
      - 908B64B197 6y ago
        > This is not so much the case in my experience (Europe). People here do not start new companies that frequently (as is the culture in the US, I think). In Europe? No. European founders? There are so many in the Bay Area. For some reasons they don't seem to stay in Europe.
- worker767424 6y ago
  I keep it up-to-date with at least my employers because there are enough FAANGs and well-known unicorns on the list that that alone gets me recruiters emails. A few of the FAANGs have a recruiter check in with me every year. Basically, I interact with it enough so recruiters know I'm out there and desirable.
- cloudedcordial 6y ago
  I purposely put very little info on LinkedIn to look like a desirable employee and to avoid clueless people from looking for career advice from me.
granshaw 6y ago
Classic “rich get richer” effect, should be a law saying that it’s as common in society as the normal distribution is in nature
- ghaff 6y ago
  You're essentially arguing for a bimodal distribution which does, in fact, seem to exist to at least some degree in some professions, including law.
- xyzelement 6y ago
  I am not even saying that. As technologists, we have a TON of impact into our own hire ability and incomes. More than people realize. For example, I looked at the blog author's LinkedIn profile. Regardless of his level, it's not a good profile in terms of presenting his maturity as a technologist and ability to deliver outcomes. Which lowers his odds of being noticed by good recruiters even at his current caliber of dev. To at least some degree, this contributes to the negative experience he is having.
- AlchemistCamp 6y ago
  It's known as "The Matthew Effect".
jasonladuke0311 6y ago
I don’t know if I’m desirable, but definitely selective. I targeted a few dozen roles I found, all of them at companies I was interested in. I got replies from a dozen or so, and ended up interviewing at 8. All them were very pleasant, even interesting in some cases. These were all places that are well-known here so maybe there is a correlation? I don’t like the take-home assessment trend, but I do understand it from a hiring perspective.
Frazmatazz 6y ago
I'm pretty selective although I'm fairly low caliber. I have alternative income so I'm never in a rush to get hired. I'm sometimes surprised by weird hiring practices at a place I didn't expect. Even different positions at the same FAANG can be completely different experiences.
andreskytt 6y ago
I’ve had a very bad recruiter experience with Google. It comes down to the organization, I think: if they care about which people they hire, the experience is good. G is so big they can’t possibly care too much.

toast0 6y ago

> On one extreme, a very desirable dev has the luxury of ignoring all but the most thoughtful recruiter pings on LinkedIn. You've set your sights too low. A very desirable dev doesn't need to interface with LinkedIn at all.

xyzelement 6y ago
I can see how that could be true although seems silly to limit your inbound opportunities that way (my last 2 roles came via a LI reach-out so I am biased) What has been your path that landed you amazing highly paid roles and why do you think you're not missing out by not hearing from a broader set of companies?
- toast0 6y ago
  Went to a small college in Milwaukee cause I knew someone going there on IRC and they had low admission standards. Got my job at Yahoo Travel via Topcoder referal (before LinkedIn existed). Worked there for seven years. Got many many many spams from LinkedIn to my yahoo-inc address when people uploaded the corporate address book and LinkedIn wouldn't let you unsubscribe without making an account. Made enough to pay a mortgage on a bay area house with a single income. Got recruited to WhatsApp by Brian Acton who was breifly my boss's boss at Yahoo. Worked there for not quite eight years. Made enough to retire comfortably. Could I have been more highly paid? Probably when I was working for Yahoo, I got a bigger salary when I moved to a startup. I doubt I could have found anything better post 2014 though. If I was looking now, I would probably look at selected company's hiring pages and/or through niche sites like HN's who's hiring etc.
  - xyzelement 6y ago
    Excellent story! My strategy is "the more inbound opportunity the better" so LI is my friend (with plenty of saying "no thank you") but it would be very hard to argue that your approach doesn't work well.
ghaff 6y ago
I have responded to a few recruiters over time. But every job since the one I was recruited on-campus for in grad school came from reaching out to someone I knew at the company. (Not a developer but in tech.) ADDED: I've been in a sufficiently specialized subset of the industry for a long time that random recruiter emails aren't likely to be interesting. And I know a lot of people at different companies. So I have pretty much a bare bones profile on LinkedIn as I'm not really looking for inbound pings.
908B64B197 6y ago
Even worst: a lot of the best devs out there are completely invisible. They get offers long before they even decide to switch jobs. They simply never had a LinkedIn account to begin with. It's a friend that calls them to tell them about the new project they are about to hire for. Companies can either spend more on recruiting fees, or more on better devs that will try to get their friends hired...
- vitaflo 6y ago
  >Companies can either spend more on recruiting fees, or more on better devs that will try to get their friends hired... Yup, half of the team I'm on is made up of people who have worked together in the past and are good. That's how I got the job and how I get all my gigs. I haven't had to really interview for a job since 2002. LinkedIn is entirely unnecessary when you have a large enough network of people who enjoy working with you. The jobs come to you.
  - atregir 6y ago
    This is not so much the case in my experience (Europe). People here do not start new companies that frequently (as is the culture in the US, I think). Many people switch companies and while they can refer you at their new company (and they do), you still have to go through the interviewing process. My own experience: My first job I was approached by one of my Uni professors that had a small company, to work for them. Second job (while still doing my masters at Uni) I had to go through an actual exam for a big company in my country. I found out about it at the Uni (they'd post everywhere they were looking). Third job found on Stack Overflow. Current job found on LinkedIn.
    - 908B64B197 6y ago
      > This is not so much the case in my experience (Europe). People here do not start new companies that frequently (as is the culture in the US, I think). In Europe? No. European founders? There are so many in the Bay Area. For some reasons they don't seem to stay in Europe.
worker767424 6y ago
I keep it up-to-date with at least my employers because there are enough FAANGs and well-known unicorns on the list that that alone gets me recruiters emails. A few of the FAANGs have a recruiter check in with me every year. Basically, I interact with it enough so recruiters know I'm out there and desirable.
cloudedcordial 6y ago
I purposely put very little info on LinkedIn to look like a desirable employee and to avoid clueless people from looking for career advice from me.

granshaw 6y ago

Classic “rich get richer” effect, should be a law saying that it’s as common in society as the normal distribution is in nature

ghaff 6y ago
You're essentially arguing for a bimodal distribution which does, in fact, seem to exist to at least some degree in some professions, including law.
xyzelement 6y ago
I am not even saying that. As technologists, we have a TON of impact into our own hire ability and incomes. More than people realize. For example, I looked at the blog author's LinkedIn profile. Regardless of his level, it's not a good profile in terms of presenting his maturity as a technologist and ability to deliver outcomes. Which lowers his odds of being noticed by good recruiters even at his current caliber of dev. To at least some degree, this contributes to the negative experience he is having.
AlchemistCamp 6y ago
It's known as "The Matthew Effect".

jasonladuke0311 6y ago

I don’t know if I’m desirable, but definitely selective. I targeted a few dozen roles I found, all of them at companies I was interested in. I got replies from a dozen or so, and ended up interviewing at 8. All them were very pleasant, even interesting in some cases. These were all places that are well-known here so maybe there is a correlation? I don’t like the take-home assessment trend, but I do understand it from a hiring perspective.

Frazmatazz 6y ago

I'm pretty selective although I'm fairly low caliber. I have alternative income so I'm never in a rush to get hired. I'm sometimes surprised by weird hiring practices at a place I didn't expect. Even different positions at the same FAANG can be completely different experiences.

andreskytt 6y ago

I’ve had a very bad recruiter experience with Google. It comes down to the organization, I think: if they care about which people they hire, the experience is good. G is so big they can’t possibly care too much.