4 ms·

I've had similar experiences across my career. If you have any self-esteem the process is a sad joke. It's amazing how many outfits - recruiters and hiring comp

I've had similar experiences across my career. If you have any self-esteem the process is a sad joke. It's amazing how many outfits - recruiters and hiring companies - don't realize how many yellow and red flags they emit in the most basic of interactions. I have a phrase I like to repeat: How you hire is who you hire.

one2three4 6y ago
"How you hire is who you hire." I like that. Reminds me of "You optimize what you measure". The thing is that they can do it. It's a buyers market - that is if you consider sellers the people selling their know-how and time for a living.
heavyset_go 6y ago
> It's amazing how many outfits - recruiters and hiring companies - don't realize how many yellow and red flags they emit in the most basic of interactions. It's like an reverse "cast a wide net" type of situation, where the net is tiny and full of holes, but there are so many desperate people out there that they still catch enough candidates with it to never question their methods.
- chiefalchemist 6y ago
  Right. "There aren't any good candidates," they typically say. Actually, there are. But not if they go about it they way they do, and keep doing. It's like saying, "There aren't any fish." And then casting the net back into your toilet.
  - cutemonster 6y ago
    I'm curious about how an interview process would work, if you got to design it? What elements would it include, and not include
    - chiefalchemist 6y ago
      Well, it would be more conversational for starters. That is, it's _not_ about hiring but fit - for all parties involved. For example, "Tell us why we should hire you." The classic closing question. Fair enough. But then I get to ask, "Tell me why I should want to have a career here," should be fair game. It's not. I've sat through far too many (traditional) interviews where they have a "you need us more than we need you" mindset. Ironic, eh. That's a cultural red flag. Just one example, btw. Culture matters. And it comes out in how you hire. And that determines who you hire, who you retain, or more importantly don't retain.
      - cutemonster 6y ago
        Ok, thanks for sharing > (traditional) interviews where they have a "you need us more than we need you" mindset That's with coding interviews and such things, if I were to guess?

one2three4 6y ago

"How you hire is who you hire." I like that. Reminds me of "You optimize what you measure". The thing is that they can do it. It's a buyers market - that is if you consider sellers the people selling their know-how and time for a living.

heavyset_go 6y ago

> It's amazing how many outfits - recruiters and hiring companies - don't realize how many yellow and red flags they emit in the most basic of interactions. It's like an reverse "cast a wide net" type of situation, where the net is tiny and full of holes, but there are so many desperate people out there that they still catch enough candidates with it to never question their methods.

chiefalchemist 6y ago
Right. "There aren't any good candidates," they typically say. Actually, there are. But not if they go about it they way they do, and keep doing. It's like saying, "There aren't any fish." And then casting the net back into your toilet.
- cutemonster 6y ago
  I'm curious about how an interview process would work, if you got to design it? What elements would it include, and not include
  - chiefalchemist 6y ago
    Well, it would be more conversational for starters. That is, it's _not_ about hiring but fit - for all parties involved. For example, "Tell us why we should hire you." The classic closing question. Fair enough. But then I get to ask, "Tell me why I should want to have a career here," should be fair game. It's not. I've sat through far too many (traditional) interviews where they have a "you need us more than we need you" mindset. Ironic, eh. That's a cultural red flag. Just one example, btw. Culture matters. And it comes out in how you hire. And that determines who you hire, who you retain, or more importantly don't retain.
    - cutemonster 6y ago
      Ok, thanks for sharing > (traditional) interviews where they have a "you need us more than we need you" mindset That's with coding interviews and such things, if I were to guess?