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It's a highly addictive substance which creates chemical dependence over time - for some, never, but a vast percentage of people are vulnerable to the gradual c

It's a highly addictive substance which creates chemical dependence over time - for some, never, but a vast percentage of people are vulnerable to the gradual creep of addiction.

CarelessExpert 5y ago
> but a vast percentage of people are vulnerable to the gradual creep of addiction. Sorry, you're gonna have to back up this rather hefty statement with some facts. I've never seen any data to suggest that a "vast percentage" of people are at risk of becoming alcoholics.
- johnorourke 5y ago
  > gonna have to back up this rather hefty statement Thanks, you're quite right to challenge that, it's a belief based on past reading and should be backed up.
- rhapsodic 5y ago
  >> but a vast percentage of people are vulnerable to the gradual creep of addiction. > Sorry, you're gonna have to back up this rather hefty statement with some facts. I've never seen any data to suggest that a "vast percentage" of people are at risk of becoming alcoholics. "vulnerable to the gradual creep of addiction" and "at risk of becoming alcoholics" are not the same thing. A person might refrain from alcohol altogether because they believe, perhaps due to their family history, that if they drank on a regular basis they would become alcoholic. IOW, they feel they are vulnerable to the gradual creep of addiction. And they might be right. But as long they don't drink at all, they're not at risk of developing alcoholism.
  - CarelessExpert 5y ago
    The claim was a "vast percentage of people are vulnerable" to alcoholism. Their reply supports my interpretation of their comment. This isn't about the propensity of an individual to develop alcoholism based on personal circumstances. This is a population-level claim with no data to back it up. Frankly, I'm not even sure what you're arguing but it seems wholly disconnected from the OPs claim or my counterpoint.
    - rhapsodic 5y ago
      > The claim was a "vast percentage of people are vulnerable" to alcoholism. Uh, the claim was that "a vast percentage of people are vulnerable to the gradual creep of addiction." As it was written, rather than as you interpreted it, it's a statement that, based on my experience and observations, I believe is correct.
karmakaze 5y ago
Of the many things I've tried, cigarettes (likely the chemicals rather than the tobacco) was the most habit forming. I remember working a co-op term in Montreal in the winter and taking up the habit. At somewhere over a pack a week was habit forming. Less didn't seem to be. I've drank lots, both socially and just at home for no reason. I enjoyed having many different beers around and consumed what was on-hand but never got to the point I made special trips to stock it. Similarly for wines or spirits (vodka, tequila, whiskey, wine). Lately since there's little social occasions to drink, I've taken to consuming a bottle of red per week with/after meals. It seems to help with sleep (since I also have a couple cups of coffee throughout the day) than without. Edit: Also recalling that it wasn't all that long ago, historically speaking, that Quebec still allowed smoking inside the office, and there was one woman who I worked with that had a rolling machine and a large ashtray that always needed emptying. It was like a weird trip in a time-machine.
- zabzonk 5y ago
  > likely the chemicals rather than the tobacco Everything is "chemicals". > somewhere over a pack a week was habit forming Try three packs a day > I've drank lots, Probably not, compared with someone (such as me) that does drink lots. > I've taken to consuming a bottle of red per week ... I also have a couple cups of coffee throughout the day Careful there! My point is that different people have wildly different ideas about what is acceptable, damaging and addictive, and their ability to deal with it, in one way or another. I easily managed to give up cigarettes because my girlfriend said she would leave me if I didn't. She gave up alcohol (which she was a heavy user of) when she became pregnant (not by me), which is something I know I will never be able to do.
  - karmakaze 5y ago
    Yes absolutely. I didn't mean to imply that this was in any way universal. Coffee may be the second hardest thing for me. I've successfully given it up for a month or more a number of times, getting all the way through withdrawal symptoms where I generally feel happier and more energetic. So far I've always restarted consumption. Not out of a physical/psychological want but because it's so easy, mildly pleasant, and aids focus during work hours.

It's a highly addictive substance which creates chemical dependence over time - for some, never, but a vast percentage of people are vulnerable to the gradual creep of addiction.

CarelessExpert 5y ago

> but a vast percentage of people are vulnerable to the gradual creep of addiction. Sorry, you're gonna have to back up this rather hefty statement with some facts. I've never seen any data to suggest that a "vast percentage" of people are at risk of becoming alcoholics.

johnorourke 5y ago
> gonna have to back up this rather hefty statement Thanks, you're quite right to challenge that, it's a belief based on past reading and should be backed up.
rhapsodic 5y ago
>> but a vast percentage of people are vulnerable to the gradual creep of addiction. > Sorry, you're gonna have to back up this rather hefty statement with some facts. I've never seen any data to suggest that a "vast percentage" of people are at risk of becoming alcoholics. "vulnerable to the gradual creep of addiction" and "at risk of becoming alcoholics" are not the same thing. A person might refrain from alcohol altogether because they believe, perhaps due to their family history, that if they drank on a regular basis they would become alcoholic. IOW, they feel they are vulnerable to the gradual creep of addiction. And they might be right. But as long they don't drink at all, they're not at risk of developing alcoholism.
- CarelessExpert 5y ago
  The claim was a "vast percentage of people are vulnerable" to alcoholism. Their reply supports my interpretation of their comment. This isn't about the propensity of an individual to develop alcoholism based on personal circumstances. This is a population-level claim with no data to back it up. Frankly, I'm not even sure what you're arguing but it seems wholly disconnected from the OPs claim or my counterpoint.
  - rhapsodic 5y ago
    > The claim was a "vast percentage of people are vulnerable" to alcoholism. Uh, the claim was that "a vast percentage of people are vulnerable to the gradual creep of addiction." As it was written, rather than as you interpreted it, it's a statement that, based on my experience and observations, I believe is correct.

karmakaze 5y ago

Of the many things I've tried, cigarettes (likely the chemicals rather than the tobacco) was the most habit forming. I remember working a co-op term in Montreal in the winter and taking up the habit. At somewhere over a pack a week was habit forming. Less didn't seem to be. I've drank lots, both socially and just at home for no reason. I enjoyed having many different beers around and consumed what was on-hand but never got to the point I made special trips to stock it. Similarly for wines or spirits (vodka, tequila, whiskey, wine). Lately since there's little social occasions to drink, I've taken to consuming a bottle of red per week with/after meals. It seems to help with sleep (since I also have a couple cups of coffee throughout the day) than without. Edit: Also recalling that it wasn't all that long ago, historically speaking, that Quebec still allowed smoking inside the office, and there was one woman who I worked with that had a rolling machine and a large ashtray that always needed emptying. It was like a weird trip in a time-machine.

zabzonk 5y ago
> likely the chemicals rather than the tobacco Everything is "chemicals". > somewhere over a pack a week was habit forming Try three packs a day > I've drank lots, Probably not, compared with someone (such as me) that does drink lots. > I've taken to consuming a bottle of red per week ... I also have a couple cups of coffee throughout the day Careful there! My point is that different people have wildly different ideas about what is acceptable, damaging and addictive, and their ability to deal with it, in one way or another. I easily managed to give up cigarettes because my girlfriend said she would leave me if I didn't. She gave up alcohol (which she was a heavy user of) when she became pregnant (not by me), which is something I know I will never be able to do.
- karmakaze 5y ago
  Yes absolutely. I didn't mean to imply that this was in any way universal. Coffee may be the second hardest thing for me. I've successfully given it up for a month or more a number of times, getting all the way through withdrawal symptoms where I generally feel happier and more energetic. So far I've always restarted consumption. Not out of a physical/psychological want but because it's so easy, mildly pleasant, and aids focus during work hours.