5 ms·

Let's make the world more fair first before locking everyone into the play store or the apple store. With the airbnb analogy, people are also free to list their

Let's make the world more fair first before locking everyone into the play store or the apple store. With the airbnb analogy, people are also free to list their vacation house on reddit, craigslist or just tell people about it and as long as they have a method to take payment - that just works. Let's simplify. Let's say I sell lemonade. It's 100% legit with USDA approval or whatever BUT I'm having trouble selling it. Grocery stores are happy with their own brand but maybe I'm lucky enough to get 1 Wholefoods to set up a counter. I can see the analogy of whole foods requiring me to not sell while in their store. However whole foods does NOT require me to white label. And they would not require me to change my website to not have alternative buying choices. In fact I do this all the time with foods I find in Wholefoods - I go to the website of foods I love and see if I can buy directly in bulk. This is the CORRECT analogy. It's not correct to say that everyone is going into Safeway and stealing shit off the shelves. The OP should know that, and you should know that.

spoonjim 5y ago
Trader Joe’s, on the other hand, does require almost everyone to white label.
- coding123 5y ago
  Trader Joes has what, 1% of the market share of shoppers? Android and iPhone have what, 99%?
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    Android and iPhone definitely cannot each have 99% of the market.
    - Osiris 5y ago
      Combined, not each.
    - coding123 5y ago
      Going back to the grocery store analogy... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supermarket_chains_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supermarket_chains_in_... While at least 50% of the random grocery stores you would see are under one of the big 5 (or so) many of these stores are generally able to carry additional products not even necessarily approved by the top. Part of that is simply competition with local chains. And that doesn't even cover the fact that you have gobs of local and regional chains to contact and sell goods to. But basically as a seller of lemonade you are highly likely to be able to sell your product without insane restrictions - as well have the ability to choose a chain or store that has competitive markup or a markup that you agree with. If you sell phone applications you are dealing with exactly 2 entities that you HAVE to go through.
    - anoncake 5y ago
      Android apps and iPhone apps are different markets.
      - colejohnson66 5y ago
        If you can just define a market to whatever you want, then everyone has a 100% market share. By your definition, Samsung has a 100% market share on Samsung TVs.
        anoncake 5y ago
        No, because you can substitute a different manufacturer's TV for a Samsung one and vice versa.
  - AuthorizedCust 5y ago
    How is 1% market share relevant? If that policy is justified, then market share is irrelevant.
    - coding123 5y ago
      ... because a seller literally has 99% of the market to go after instead because they don't have a policy like that?
- kentonv 5y ago
  Trader Joe's customers can and do shop at other stores as well. Whereas people don't realistically carry more than one phone or switch phone types frequently.
themacguffinman 5y ago
> With the airbnb analogy, people are also free to list their vacation house on reddit, craigslist or just tell people about it and as long as they have a method to take payment - that just works. And on Android, developers are free to list their apps on F-Droid, Amazon Appstore or just let people download & install it from their own website. Unlike iOS, the Play Store is not mandatory. > However whole foods does NOT require me to white label. (...) And they would not require me to change my website to not have alternative buying choices. Grocery stores can and do ask anything they want of suppliers. Trader Joe's buys many products from suppliers like PepsiCo under a white labelling agreement. Walmart will fully dictate the packaging and pricing of your product (eg. demanding that Vlasic sell a Walmart-exclusive $2.97 gallon jar of pickles). Don't like their terms? Tough luck, it's their store. I'm not saying that the grocery store analogy is a good one but it clearly works against your point. Actually I've only seen it mentioned to support dictatorial app stores.
- anoncake 5y ago
  > And on Android, developers are free to list their apps on F-Droid, Amazon Appstore or just let people download & install it from their own website. Unlike iOS, the Play Store is not mandatory. In practice, it is. Only the Play Store can update apps in the background.
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
I can't downvote you because you're a direct response, but please don't do this: > Downvotes are not replying so I'm assuming they are just pissed that my logic checks out. It breaks the site guidelines [1]. [1] Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
- coding123 5y ago
  Thank you, noted and removed.
- jonnycomputer 5y ago
  [1] is the stupidest. Well second stupidest. HN's voting system is stupider. And yeah, downvotes are done in lieu of actual discussion. And they shouldn't be allowed.
  - jonnycomputer 5y ago
    Its Orwellian how discussion of how broken something is is not allowed. So, now I'll just down vote everyone for the hell of it. There.

spoonjim 5y ago

Trader Joe’s, on the other hand, does require almost everyone to white label.

coding123 5y ago
Trader Joes has what, 1% of the market share of shoppers? Android and iPhone have what, 99%?
- tshaddox 5y ago
  Android and iPhone definitely cannot each have 99% of the market.
  - Osiris 5y ago
    Combined, not each.
  - coding123 5y ago
    Going back to the grocery store analogy... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supermarket_chains_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supermarket_chains_in_... While at least 50% of the random grocery stores you would see are under one of the big 5 (or so) many of these stores are generally able to carry additional products not even necessarily approved by the top. Part of that is simply competition with local chains. And that doesn't even cover the fact that you have gobs of local and regional chains to contact and sell goods to. But basically as a seller of lemonade you are highly likely to be able to sell your product without insane restrictions - as well have the ability to choose a chain or store that has competitive markup or a markup that you agree with. If you sell phone applications you are dealing with exactly 2 entities that you HAVE to go through.
  - anoncake 5y ago
    Android apps and iPhone apps are different markets.
    - colejohnson66 5y ago
      If you can just define a market to whatever you want, then everyone has a 100% market share. By your definition, Samsung has a 100% market share on Samsung TVs.
      - anoncake 5y ago
        No, because you can substitute a different manufacturer's TV for a Samsung one and vice versa.
- AuthorizedCust 5y ago
  How is 1% market share relevant? If that policy is justified, then market share is irrelevant.
  - coding123 5y ago
    ... because a seller literally has 99% of the market to go after instead because they don't have a policy like that?
kentonv 5y ago
Trader Joe's customers can and do shop at other stores as well. Whereas people don't realistically carry more than one phone or switch phone types frequently.

themacguffinman 5y ago

> With the airbnb analogy, people are also free to list their vacation house on reddit, craigslist or just tell people about it and as long as they have a method to take payment - that just works. And on Android, developers are free to list their apps on F-Droid, Amazon Appstore or just let people download & install it from their own website. Unlike iOS, the Play Store is not mandatory. > However whole foods does NOT require me to white label. (...) And they would not require me to change my website to not have alternative buying choices. Grocery stores can and do ask anything they want of suppliers. Trader Joe's buys many products from suppliers like PepsiCo under a white labelling agreement. Walmart will fully dictate the packaging and pricing of your product (eg. demanding that Vlasic sell a Walmart-exclusive $2.97 gallon jar of pickles). Don't like their terms? Tough luck, it's their store. I'm not saying that the grocery store analogy is a good one but it clearly works against your point. Actually I've only seen it mentioned to support dictatorial app stores.

anoncake 5y ago
> And on Android, developers are free to list their apps on F-Droid, Amazon Appstore or just let people download & install it from their own website. Unlike iOS, the Play Store is not mandatory. In practice, it is. Only the Play Store can update apps in the background.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

I can't downvote you because you're a direct response, but please don't do this: > Downvotes are not replying so I'm assuming they are just pissed that my logic checks out. It breaks the site guidelines [1]. [1] Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

coding123 5y ago
Thank you, noted and removed.
jonnycomputer 5y ago
[1] is the stupidest. Well second stupidest. HN's voting system is stupider. And yeah, downvotes are done in lieu of actual discussion. And they shouldn't be allowed.
- jonnycomputer 5y ago
  Its Orwellian how discussion of how broken something is is not allowed. So, now I'll just down vote everyone for the hell of it. There.