4 ms·

If Proud Boys are considered far-right neo-nazis, can anybody tell me of a not-far-right political advocacy group that’s allowed to protest without having them

If Proud Boys are considered far-right neo-nazis, can anybody tell me of a not-far-right political advocacy group that’s allowed to protest without having them labeled as such? I mean... given that this very article shows their leader and several large donors are not white.

_qwfv 5y ago
You are asking for one example. A recent one that comes to mind are peaceful anti mask protesters. I don't think they are labeled neonazis. I happen to disagree with them strongly and hold their views in low regard and believe they are directly contributing to the pandemic, but I haven't seen them widely labeled neonazis.
- benjohnson 5y ago
  In normal political times, I think your example with disprove my premise, but here you have the SPLC lumping in the anti-maskers with nazis, murders and racists in their Year of Hate and Extremism. https://www.splcenter.org/news/2021/02/01/year-hate-2020 https://www.splcenter.org/news/2021/02/01/year-hate-2020 Upon reflection, I think there’s two problems here: The left labeling everything they don’t like as being Nazi, and the right who is unable to police their own members from real jerks. Here’s an example - when the Tea Party first started I sws a mildly-right group of people that had all sorts of people: Asians tired of taxes, pro-2nd amendment Blacks and quite a free people who were liberal but were tired of government waste. Even granola types who thought that the government was too big and too federal and thought that policy decisions should be more local. Then the crazies showed up and within a month it became a group that I didn’t want to be associated with - we didn’t have the guts to tell them to leave and that was our fault. I don’t like telling that story, because based on the evidence, their was barely any time at all when the Tea Party wasn’t nuts.
  - _qwfv 5y ago
    The link you posted mentions anti maskers once, and only calls some of them antigovernment. But yeah, your broader point is worth exploring. People coopting movements is definitely a thing. Should the original groups do more to exclude the (your words) crazies?
    - igetspam 5y ago
      Yes unless they're ok with being lumped together with them. If I like cars and so do nazis, I'm not gonna accept them into my club just because we share one thing in common. They're nazis.
  - krapp 5y ago
    The SPLC is describing anti-government groups among the anti-mask movement, not anti-maskers as a whole, but the Venn diagram of "anti-maskers", "right-wing militias", "conspiracy theorists" and "white supremacists" does overlap. Not perfectly, but also not inconsequentially. The phenomenon you described as having happened within the Tea Party has happened everywhere among the right end of the American political spectrum over the last decade. Rhetoric which was once confined to the lunatic fringe of talk radio and forums is now mainstream. QAnon emerged from the bowels of 4chan, exploded and became popular enough to win elections, and now the Republican Party enthusiastically stands behind a Congresswoman who believes in Pizzagate and Jewish space lasers. The former president of the United States retweeting nazi memes was not even a story, it was just another Tuesday. And yes, this has happened somewhat among the left, but not nearly to the same degree, and mostly as a reaction to what's happened on the right. But can you really blame the left for seeing nazis everywhere when nazis keep showing up everywhere?
brayhite 5y ago
Depending on your definition of “protests” and “demonstrations”, go to almost any Planned Parenthood or any other clinic that proactively offers abortions and you’ll likely find a group of folks who show up with some regularity to protest against abortion. I’ve not heard those folks labeled as neo-nazis.
- benjohnson 5y ago
  Good observation, but they’re not united based on being politically right of center - there’s many people in the Pro Life Movement who are left of center in many policies like government-run health care, government monopoly on schooling, and quotas for disadvantaged minorities.
quantstats 5y ago
I find your framing to be really curious, considering there's evidence pointing precisely the other way: My own research analyzed about 1,500 protest-related news stories published throughout 2014 in mainstream, alternative, partisan and online news publications. Articles about conservative protests — like protests opposed to immigration or LGBT rights, or protests supporting Trump and gun rights — are less likely to be negatively framed as “riots” than other types of protests. In contrast, Black Lives Matter protests are more likely to be framed as riots, as news coverage focuses more on violence, property damage and confrontations with police. Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/13/theres-double-standard-how-news-media-cover-liberal-conservative-protests https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/13/theres-do....
- Grieving 5y ago
  Try checking for something a bit more recent than 2014. Media still attempted to muzzle the craziness of the left at that point.
  - SauciestGNU 5y ago
    I don't know if you looked at the article linked but it's from 2021.
    - Grieving 5y ago
      > My own research analyzed about 1,500 protest-related news stories published throughout 2014
      - SauciestGNU 5y ago
        If you read the article it explains its methodology and that it is not limited to the year 2014, which should be evidenced by the reference to Trump supporters, which presumably didn't exist in 2014 because he had not yet announced his candidacy.
        5y ago
pushcx 5y ago
They're called neo-nazis because they're neo-nazis: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/proud-boy-6mwe/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/proud-boy-6mwe/
- mam2 5y ago
  All of them ?
  - fucknugget 5y ago
    Maybe not literally all of them. You could probably find a few that aren’t- these are what are called “useful idiots”
threatofrain 5y ago
Even the Canadian government has cancelled the Proud Boys. Imagine being banned from a country, being judged under the suspicion of terrorism.
kaminar 5y ago
My response to the article headline is "and?". So what, who cares...trying to be some sort of tattle tale?

_qwfv 5y ago

You are asking for one example. A recent one that comes to mind are peaceful anti mask protesters. I don't think they are labeled neonazis. I happen to disagree with them strongly and hold their views in low regard and believe they are directly contributing to the pandemic, but I haven't seen them widely labeled neonazis.

benjohnson 5y ago
In normal political times, I think your example with disprove my premise, but here you have the SPLC lumping in the anti-maskers with nazis, murders and racists in their Year of Hate and Extremism. https://www.splcenter.org/news/2021/02/01/year-hate-2020 https://www.splcenter.org/news/2021/02/01/year-hate-2020 Upon reflection, I think there’s two problems here: The left labeling everything they don’t like as being Nazi, and the right who is unable to police their own members from real jerks. Here’s an example - when the Tea Party first started I sws a mildly-right group of people that had all sorts of people: Asians tired of taxes, pro-2nd amendment Blacks and quite a free people who were liberal but were tired of government waste. Even granola types who thought that the government was too big and too federal and thought that policy decisions should be more local. Then the crazies showed up and within a month it became a group that I didn’t want to be associated with - we didn’t have the guts to tell them to leave and that was our fault. I don’t like telling that story, because based on the evidence, their was barely any time at all when the Tea Party wasn’t nuts.
- _qwfv 5y ago
  The link you posted mentions anti maskers once, and only calls some of them antigovernment. But yeah, your broader point is worth exploring. People coopting movements is definitely a thing. Should the original groups do more to exclude the (your words) crazies?
  - igetspam 5y ago
    Yes unless they're ok with being lumped together with them. If I like cars and so do nazis, I'm not gonna accept them into my club just because we share one thing in common. They're nazis.
- krapp 5y ago
  The SPLC is describing anti-government groups among the anti-mask movement, not anti-maskers as a whole, but the Venn diagram of "anti-maskers", "right-wing militias", "conspiracy theorists" and "white supremacists" does overlap. Not perfectly, but also not inconsequentially. The phenomenon you described as having happened within the Tea Party has happened everywhere among the right end of the American political spectrum over the last decade. Rhetoric which was once confined to the lunatic fringe of talk radio and forums is now mainstream. QAnon emerged from the bowels of 4chan, exploded and became popular enough to win elections, and now the Republican Party enthusiastically stands behind a Congresswoman who believes in Pizzagate and Jewish space lasers. The former president of the United States retweeting nazi memes was not even a story, it was just another Tuesday. And yes, this has happened somewhat among the left, but not nearly to the same degree, and mostly as a reaction to what's happened on the right. But can you really blame the left for seeing nazis everywhere when nazis keep showing up everywhere?

brayhite 5y ago

Depending on your definition of “protests” and “demonstrations”, go to almost any Planned Parenthood or any other clinic that proactively offers abortions and you’ll likely find a group of folks who show up with some regularity to protest against abortion. I’ve not heard those folks labeled as neo-nazis.

benjohnson 5y ago
Good observation, but they’re not united based on being politically right of center - there’s many people in the Pro Life Movement who are left of center in many policies like government-run health care, government monopoly on schooling, and quotas for disadvantaged minorities.

quantstats 5y ago

I find your framing to be really curious, considering there's evidence pointing precisely the other way: My own research analyzed about 1,500 protest-related news stories published throughout 2014 in mainstream, alternative, partisan and online news publications. Articles about conservative protests — like protests opposed to immigration or LGBT rights, or protests supporting Trump and gun rights — are less likely to be negatively framed as “riots” than other types of protests. In contrast, Black Lives Matter protests are more likely to be framed as riots, as news coverage focuses more on violence, property damage and confrontations with police. Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/13/theres-double-standard-how-news-media-cover-liberal-conservative-protests https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/13/theres-do....

Grieving 5y ago
Try checking for something a bit more recent than 2014. Media still attempted to muzzle the craziness of the left at that point.
- SauciestGNU 5y ago
  I don't know if you looked at the article linked but it's from 2021.
  - Grieving 5y ago
    > My own research analyzed about 1,500 protest-related news stories published throughout 2014
    - SauciestGNU 5y ago
      If you read the article it explains its methodology and that it is not limited to the year 2014, which should be evidenced by the reference to Trump supporters, which presumably didn't exist in 2014 because he had not yet announced his candidacy.
      - 5y ago

pushcx 5y ago

They're called neo-nazis because they're neo-nazis: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/proud-boy-6mwe/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/proud-boy-6mwe/

mam2 5y ago
All of them ?
- fucknugget 5y ago
  Maybe not literally all of them. You could probably find a few that aren’t- these are what are called “useful idiots”

threatofrain 5y ago

Even the Canadian government has cancelled the Proud Boys. Imagine being banned from a country, being judged under the suspicion of terrorism.

kaminar 5y ago

My response to the article headline is "and?". So what, who cares...trying to be some sort of tattle tale?