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When someone talks about mass shootings in churches (Charleston - 9 dead), and synagogues (Pittsburgh - 11 dead, 6 wounded; Powey - 1 dead, 3 wounded) or cars b

by DanBC 6y ago

When someone talks about mass shootings in churches (Charleston - 9 dead), and synagogues (Pittsburgh - 11 dead, 6 wounded; Powey - 1 dead, 3 wounded) or cars being driven into protestors (Charlottesville - 1 dead, 19 injured) and you pop off to say [okay I know these aren't terrorism but how about these examples of property damage? The left is just as bad] you are being inflammatory. You posting that NPR link is incoherent. For that to make any sense you'd have to be claiming that, during the Trump administration, the FBI was deceptively hiding terrorism by the left and by islamicists and pushing excessive focus on the right.

aww_dang 6y ago
> Instead of looking for equivalence or ranking which side is worse, perhaps we should blanketly condemn political violence. >You posting that NPR link is incoherent From where I stand your entire reply is incoherent and inflammatory. You accuse me of seeking equivalence before citing the most inflammatory examples of political violence by one side. This despite the fact that I explicitly suggest that equivalence or ranking isn't interesting to me. Historical context of the FBI's evolving political agendas may help to illustrate that we may in fact be inside of a bias bubble. Especially if you are asserting that the FBI is apolitical. The mainstream presses' presentation of political violence last summer may also be instructive. At the end of the day, I'm not sure why it is important which flavor is more terrorist-y. It seems like an irrelevant partisan distinction. I'd like to avoid that debate, thanks.
- felixgallo 6y ago
  at the end of the day, it is important which flavor is actually terrorism, and the fact that it tends to be concentrated in neo-islamic and neo-fascist right wing people is a tool that we can use to help fix the problem.
  - aww_dang 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/discriminatory-profiling/fbi-foia-docs-show-use-mosque-outreach-illegal-intel https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/discriminatory-p... 1) Given that those succumbing to group think and confirmation bias are generally unaware of their biases, how would we know that we are not experiencing something similar now? 2) What are the implications for civil liberties, if the state targets political opponents of the current administration? 3) Could these issues be resolved targeting political violence generally, instead of making partisan pleas and accusations? 4) If political extremism & intolerance are issues driven by the contentious political environment, are these partisan blame games contributing to the climate of toxic political divisiveness or helping to resolve it?
    - felixgallo 6y ago
      what are the implications for civil liberties, if the state targets terrorists? It's probably not great. But it's probably better than having more Oklahoma City bombings or capitol building attempted insurrections. Could 'these issues be resolved targeting political violence generally, instead of making partisan pleas and accusations'? No -- in factual reality world, there is an ideology which is responsible for the problem, and so it seems sensible to focus on that ideology. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/22/white-supremacists-rightwing-domestic-terror-2020 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/22/white-supremac... "are these partisan blame games contributing to the climate of toxic political divisiveness"? I'll tell you what's contributing to the climate of toxic political divisiveness -- overwhelmingly, the right wing, its conspiracy theorists, and their enablers; see, for example, qanon/8chan, the count of trump's lies while in office. These are radical outliers. Let's worry about that before we start worrying about the impact of us complaining about that.

by DanBC 6y ago

aww_dang 6y ago

> Instead of looking for equivalence or ranking which side is worse, perhaps we should blanketly condemn political violence. >You posting that NPR link is incoherent From where I stand your entire reply is incoherent and inflammatory. You accuse me of seeking equivalence before citing the most inflammatory examples of political violence by one side. This despite the fact that I explicitly suggest that equivalence or ranking isn't interesting to me. Historical context of the FBI's evolving political agendas may help to illustrate that we may in fact be inside of a bias bubble. Especially if you are asserting that the FBI is apolitical. The mainstream presses' presentation of political violence last summer may also be instructive. At the end of the day, I'm not sure why it is important which flavor is more terrorist-y. It seems like an irrelevant partisan distinction. I'd like to avoid that debate, thanks.

felixgallo 6y ago
at the end of the day, it is important which flavor is actually terrorism, and the fact that it tends to be concentrated in neo-islamic and neo-fascist right wing people is a tool that we can use to help fix the problem.
- aww_dang 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/discriminatory-profiling/fbi-foia-docs-show-use-mosque-outreach-illegal-intel https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/discriminatory-p... 1) Given that those succumbing to group think and confirmation bias are generally unaware of their biases, how would we know that we are not experiencing something similar now? 2) What are the implications for civil liberties, if the state targets political opponents of the current administration? 3) Could these issues be resolved targeting political violence generally, instead of making partisan pleas and accusations? 4) If political extremism & intolerance are issues driven by the contentious political environment, are these partisan blame games contributing to the climate of toxic political divisiveness or helping to resolve it?
  - felixgallo 6y ago
    what are the implications for civil liberties, if the state targets terrorists? It's probably not great. But it's probably better than having more Oklahoma City bombings or capitol building attempted insurrections. Could 'these issues be resolved targeting political violence generally, instead of making partisan pleas and accusations'? No -- in factual reality world, there is an ideology which is responsible for the problem, and so it seems sensible to focus on that ideology. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/22/white-supremacists-rightwing-domestic-terror-2020 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/22/white-supremac... "are these partisan blame games contributing to the climate of toxic political divisiveness"? I'll tell you what's contributing to the climate of toxic political divisiveness -- overwhelmingly, the right wing, its conspiracy theorists, and their enablers; see, for example, qanon/8chan, the count of trump's lies while in office. These are radical outliers. Let's worry about that before we start worrying about the impact of us complaining about that.