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> Basically, IDFA was Apple’s attempt to work with companies to provide a way to offer a sanctioned identifier for advertising tracking that respected user priv

> Basically, IDFA was Apple’s attempt to work with companies to provide a way to offer a sanctioned identifier for advertising tracking that respected user privacy and user control over tracking. It didn’t work — these companies have no respect for user privacy or user control, even with IDFA. I'd disagree with this part - I think IDFA worked as designed, Apple has changed in terms of what they're marketing and how much power they have to enforce their vision. Apple created IDFA in 2012 to give users a way to control and reset their advertising ID. It worked as designed. Advertisers could track users, but users had control to reset their advertising ID to disassociate their data. Later Apple introduced the option to disable tracking but it was opt-in, not opt-out, so most users still allowed tracking and didn't realize it's happening. In iOS 14, they've created an opt-in system, (which everyone knows most users won't opt into) and a ban hammer for apps that violate the spirit of that opt-in. Ten years ago Apple wasn't running ads about privacy and they were working on building out the App Store. Hell, 2012 is also when they introduced signing into Facebook and Twitter built into the operating system. Smacking down ad networks and decreasing revenue for app developers would have been a lot harder. They're in a much better position now.

nojito 6y ago
>Ten years ago Apple wasn't running ads about privacy and they were working on building out the App Store. Steve did https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iKLwlUqBo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iKLwlUqBo >Privacy means people know what they're signing up for, in plain English and repeatedly >I believe people are smart and some people want to share more data than other people do. Ask them. Ask them every time. Make them tell you to stop asking them if they get tired of your asking them. Let them know precisely what you're going to do with their data I think the issue was that Apple bungled IDFA by not making in opt-in initially and now are trying to correct their mistakes. Apple was vilified 10 years ago for this stance, but at the end of the day they were right with their opt-in view on tracking and how pervasive silicon valley was going to become with collecting data.
gumby 6y ago
> think IDFA worked as designed, Apple has changed in terms of what they're marketing and how much power they have to enforce their vision. Companies improve their products and sometimes it changes the ecosystem. This is way better than, say, the car industry who fought safety enhancements for decades. This is improving safety for their customers; the people who believe they will suffer for this are like the high-interest payday lenders of the internet. Apple has taken a pro-privacy position for longer than the iphone has existed. Execution has not always been great but I do believe their position is genuine. However I’ll let them defend themselves on this one: they have a communications group. I’m not trying to claim they are saints, merely that I believe that their pattern of actions Has shown a longstanding interest in their customers’ privacy. Perfect? No, but higher than any others, AFAICT. PS: if you want another car analogy: certain other actions by Apple remind me of the car companies’ proprietary extensions to the open OBD-II. So again, not saints.
- yarcob 6y ago
  Unfortunately their protections do not really apply to their own apps. While 3rd party apps need to show individual dialogs to get access to location data, all their own services (eg. data collection for maps, or the "Find My" network) automatically get access to location data if you enable location data on your device.
  - gumby 6y ago
    Some of them do (especially, but not only, on the Mac) so I wonder if calling them out would cause them to change. They responded when with they were called out for letting their own Mac apps bypass connection filtering. Also some of these questions are asked in the setup dialogue. For this particular case (the user ID) they explicitly assert that they are also subject to it. I suspect what happens is their own apps don’t go through the App Store process. The lack of that kind of dog fooding is, IMHO, the real problem.
    - yarcob 6y ago
      > For this particular case (the user ID) they explicitly assert that they are also subject to it. It's kind of a ridiculous claim though, because Apple is the only company that has access to your device UUID (on iOS). 3rd party services aren't allowed to access the device UUID, so they get the IDFA. Apple doesn't need to use the IDFA, they just use the UUID which the user can't change, and link it to your Apple ID. Also, Apple really really wants you to have an Apple ID. iPhones are almost useless without an Apple ID (no way to install software). So it's not like you can opt out of Apple tracking you by not signing in with your Apple ID.

nojito 6y ago

>Ten years ago Apple wasn't running ads about privacy and they were working on building out the App Store. Steve did https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iKLwlUqBo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iKLwlUqBo >Privacy means people know what they're signing up for, in plain English and repeatedly >I believe people are smart and some people want to share more data than other people do. Ask them. Ask them every time. Make them tell you to stop asking them if they get tired of your asking them. Let them know precisely what you're going to do with their data I think the issue was that Apple bungled IDFA by not making in opt-in initially and now are trying to correct their mistakes. Apple was vilified 10 years ago for this stance, but at the end of the day they were right with their opt-in view on tracking and how pervasive silicon valley was going to become with collecting data.

gumby 6y ago

> think IDFA worked as designed, Apple has changed in terms of what they're marketing and how much power they have to enforce their vision. Companies improve their products and sometimes it changes the ecosystem. This is way better than, say, the car industry who fought safety enhancements for decades. This is improving safety for their customers; the people who believe they will suffer for this are like the high-interest payday lenders of the internet. Apple has taken a pro-privacy position for longer than the iphone has existed. Execution has not always been great but I do believe their position is genuine. However I’ll let them defend themselves on this one: they have a communications group. I’m not trying to claim they are saints, merely that I believe that their pattern of actions Has shown a longstanding interest in their customers’ privacy. Perfect? No, but higher than any others, AFAICT. PS: if you want another car analogy: certain other actions by Apple remind me of the car companies’ proprietary extensions to the open OBD-II. So again, not saints.

yarcob 6y ago
Unfortunately their protections do not really apply to their own apps. While 3rd party apps need to show individual dialogs to get access to location data, all their own services (eg. data collection for maps, or the "Find My" network) automatically get access to location data if you enable location data on your device.
- gumby 6y ago
  Some of them do (especially, but not only, on the Mac) so I wonder if calling them out would cause them to change. They responded when with they were called out for letting their own Mac apps bypass connection filtering. Also some of these questions are asked in the setup dialogue. For this particular case (the user ID) they explicitly assert that they are also subject to it. I suspect what happens is their own apps don’t go through the App Store process. The lack of that kind of dog fooding is, IMHO, the real problem.
  - yarcob 6y ago
    > For this particular case (the user ID) they explicitly assert that they are also subject to it. It's kind of a ridiculous claim though, because Apple is the only company that has access to your device UUID (on iOS). 3rd party services aren't allowed to access the device UUID, so they get the IDFA. Apple doesn't need to use the IDFA, they just use the UUID which the user can't change, and link it to your Apple ID. Also, Apple really really wants you to have an Apple ID. iPhones are almost useless without an Apple ID (no way to install software). So it's not like you can opt out of Apple tracking you by not signing in with your Apple ID.