5 ms·

> I wonder, does such a person share a lot of characteristics of his mental state with someone who on the other side of the political spectrum This sounds like

> I wonder, does such a person share a lot of characteristics of his mental state with someone who on the other side of the political spectrum This sounds like the "horseshoe theory": "In political science and popular discourse, the horseshoe theory asserts that the far-left and the far-right, rather than being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, closely resemble one another, analogous to the way that the opposite ends of a horseshoe are close together." It's no surprise that "[t]he horseshoe theory has been criticized by those from both ends of the political spectrum who oppose being grouped with those they consider to be their polar opposites [...]" by the way ;) See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory for the full article.

slim 6y ago
moebius strip would describe this more accurately than a horse shoe
- WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
  I thought of a donut shape, but Möbius strip is good too.
ThinkBeat 6y ago
Thank you for sharing that. I was not aware of the term, but I have been aware of the idea. In a narrow manner I have seen this up close. The people some call Antifa, a term they also use themselves, will show up for protests and demonstrations. Nobody invited them, many would prefer that they were not there. In general, they detract fromt the message of the protests. Black clad people with various accoutrements needed to fight the police and damage privat property and related activities. They do not want to talk much with the organizers, and they have no wish to leave. Their expected presence means that a lot more cops show up with shields and what not to do battle. I swear that the cops want to fight them, and they want to fight the cops. These are young men (the people fighting the police are nearly all men from what I have seen, but this was back 10 years ago) They have a lot of aggression, and they like to break stuff, fight and cause mayhem. The young men on the other side (and again mostly men) who also wish to fight, break stuff and because mayhem is pretty much identical in mindset, in approach and in action. Their willingness to hide behind a "political ideology" to further their political wishes through violence. I think what cause they end up fighting for is somewhat arbitrary. They meet some chick who is left wing, or right wing. They grow up in a certain place with parents of a political persusation. They may well and up aggressive and causing trouble without the excuse of a political or religious ideology.
- ahelwer 6y ago
  As someone with quite a few left-wing friends, this comment was pretty funny to read. I have no idea why people think they can pick apart the inner machinations of the minds of people they've seemingly never spoken to, not into whose ideology they have the slightest insight or interest. Very strong "boomer opining at their suburban kitchen table about the problem with today's youths" energy. Any given person who identifies as an antifascist is vastly more likely to have deeply sincere & considered political beliefs than essentially anyone else you know in your life.
  - yostrovs 6y ago
    Almost everyone identifies as anti-fascist. That's why references to Hitler are references to things considered universally awful. A problem many have with Antifa is that they took a term and made it their own, implying that everyone else is not against fascism.
    - djeiasbsbo 6y ago
      I think the biggest misunderstanding is that Antifa is some sort of group or organised movement. That's it. Of course being anti-fascist or anti-capitalist are some of the main talking points of left wing protesters and sure, there might be groups of organised protestors. But there is no one organisation behind it all and that is the misconcenption many people have when they hear the word Antifa. No one should be afraid or ashamed of claiming to be anti-fascist, just because some people who have claimed to be that have not acted ethically!
    - Can_Not 6y ago
      > implying that everyone else is not against fascism. Weird how you take them opposing fascism and you doing nothing about fascism to correctly conclude that you're doing nothing about fascism but then baselessly blame them.
  - mr_woozy 6y ago
    "you don't know me mannnnnnnnn" >Any given person who identifies as an antifascist is vastly more likely to have deeply sincere & considered political beliefs than essentially anyone else you know in your life. jfc bloviate more why don't you. please get offended at sweeping generalizations about the left and the respond by making sweeping generalizations about everyone not identified with the left. I'm sure it'll convince everyone.
aasasd 6y ago
Almost like one-dimensionalizing a whole lot of ideas doesn't make much sense in the first place.
kkoncevicius 6y ago
There is an alternative explanation for the observations of "horseshoe" theory. One of the examples often given by that theory is how both far-right and far-left is more authoritarian compared with mainstream. To me the better model would be viewing the current political paradigm as being extreme about individual freedoms. In other words - when you are at the south pole every direction is north. This tells us more about where we currently are, and not about the similarity of those other directions.
- p2t2p 6y ago
  I know that we don't like her here but Ayn Rand had another explanation to that which seems plausible as well - that both are extreme manifestations of the same concept - collectivism. As someone else notices above, both Far Right and Far Left have quite a bit of disregard to personal freedoms so Ayn Rand may be onto something here...

slim 6y ago

moebius strip would describe this more accurately than a horse shoe

WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
I thought of a donut shape, but Möbius strip is good too.

ThinkBeat 6y ago

Thank you for sharing that. I was not aware of the term, but I have been aware of the idea. In a narrow manner I have seen this up close. The people some call Antifa, a term they also use themselves, will show up for protests and demonstrations. Nobody invited them, many would prefer that they were not there. In general, they detract fromt the message of the protests. Black clad people with various accoutrements needed to fight the police and damage privat property and related activities. They do not want to talk much with the organizers, and they have no wish to leave. Their expected presence means that a lot more cops show up with shields and what not to do battle. I swear that the cops want to fight them, and they want to fight the cops. These are young men (the people fighting the police are nearly all men from what I have seen, but this was back 10 years ago) They have a lot of aggression, and they like to break stuff, fight and cause mayhem. The young men on the other side (and again mostly men) who also wish to fight, break stuff and because mayhem is pretty much identical in mindset, in approach and in action. Their willingness to hide behind a "political ideology" to further their political wishes through violence. I think what cause they end up fighting for is somewhat arbitrary. They meet some chick who is left wing, or right wing. They grow up in a certain place with parents of a political persusation. They may well and up aggressive and causing trouble without the excuse of a political or religious ideology.

ahelwer 6y ago
As someone with quite a few left-wing friends, this comment was pretty funny to read. I have no idea why people think they can pick apart the inner machinations of the minds of people they've seemingly never spoken to, not into whose ideology they have the slightest insight or interest. Very strong "boomer opining at their suburban kitchen table about the problem with today's youths" energy. Any given person who identifies as an antifascist is vastly more likely to have deeply sincere & considered political beliefs than essentially anyone else you know in your life.
- yostrovs 6y ago
  Almost everyone identifies as anti-fascist. That's why references to Hitler are references to things considered universally awful. A problem many have with Antifa is that they took a term and made it their own, implying that everyone else is not against fascism.
  - djeiasbsbo 6y ago
    I think the biggest misunderstanding is that Antifa is some sort of group or organised movement. That's it. Of course being anti-fascist or anti-capitalist are some of the main talking points of left wing protesters and sure, there might be groups of organised protestors. But there is no one organisation behind it all and that is the misconcenption many people have when they hear the word Antifa. No one should be afraid or ashamed of claiming to be anti-fascist, just because some people who have claimed to be that have not acted ethically!
  - Can_Not 6y ago
    > implying that everyone else is not against fascism. Weird how you take them opposing fascism and you doing nothing about fascism to correctly conclude that you're doing nothing about fascism but then baselessly blame them.
- mr_woozy 6y ago
  "you don't know me mannnnnnnnn" >Any given person who identifies as an antifascist is vastly more likely to have deeply sincere & considered political beliefs than essentially anyone else you know in your life. jfc bloviate more why don't you. please get offended at sweeping generalizations about the left and the respond by making sweeping generalizations about everyone not identified with the left. I'm sure it'll convince everyone.

aasasd 6y ago

Almost like one-dimensionalizing a whole lot of ideas doesn't make much sense in the first place.

kkoncevicius 6y ago

There is an alternative explanation for the observations of "horseshoe" theory. One of the examples often given by that theory is how both far-right and far-left is more authoritarian compared with mainstream. To me the better model would be viewing the current political paradigm as being extreme about individual freedoms. In other words - when you are at the south pole every direction is north. This tells us more about where we currently are, and not about the similarity of those other directions.

p2t2p 6y ago
I know that we don't like her here but Ayn Rand had another explanation to that which seems plausible as well - that both are extreme manifestations of the same concept - collectivism. As someone else notices above, both Far Right and Far Left have quite a bit of disregard to personal freedoms so Ayn Rand may be onto something here...