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It's sad you feel as if you have to apologize preemptively for asking a question. It is a fair enough question, as there is a certain amount of bilateral suppo

It's sad you feel as if you have to apologize preemptively for asking a question. It is a fair enough question, as there is a certain amount of bilateral support for bombing data centers. There are conceivable justifications for it from many points on the political spectrum. That said, he talks like a right winger, not like a radical environmentalist or a militant communist.

roflc0ptic 5y ago
... yeah, I don't know about any radical environmentalists or communists aiming for data centers. Radical environmentalists want to blow up other things.
- luckylion 5y ago
  I consider Kaczynski an environmentalist and he's an anarchist. Take a time machine and move him straight from 1978 to 2018, what would he target? My guess is data centers would be on the list.
  - roflc0ptic 5y ago
    But that’s total conjecture. You’re just saying “well, if I made someone up, they’d target data centers.” My point is that the non-made up radical environmentalists/communists aren’t targeting data centers. My source is that in a previous iteration of this life, I happened to know a lot of communists and radical environmentalists.
    - luckylion 5y ago
      Kaczynski isn't made up, he really existed, and still does. He's not a communist though, and I don't think communists have an issue with data centers, they love making lists as well. I'm not sure about your communists friends' positions on data centers if they felt they were being used as a tool of oppression, but I have a hard time imagining someone being unironically communist these days.
      - roflc0ptic 5y ago
        Kaczynski is real, but time traveler Kaczynski is not. The radical environmentalists Im familiar with are focused on protecting forests, or (the more ambitious ones) want to destroy power infrastructure. Blowing up data centers would be kind of a half measure for e.g. the deep green resistance crowd - if you’re willing to die for it, might as well go for the throat For a taste of unironic communism in 2021: https://www.pslweb.org/ https://www.pslweb.org/ Some good people, some bad people, all in the throes of some pretty terrible ideology. shrug To be clear, not endorsing any of these ideological positions, just happen to be familiar with them owing to a misspent youth.
        luckylion 5y ago
        It would fit well for Kaczynski's mix of anarchism, anti-smart-tech-revolution and environmentalism, I believe. He went after AI researchers back then, attacking their hardware would make sense. I mean, I'm probably just a few years and a few bad turns away from seeing AWS & co ("Surveillance Capitalism, Inc.") as a large harm to humanity that needs to be stopped, so I'd be surprised if nobody is thinking that today. The scale of data centers likely makes them super hard targets for the super majority of groups or individuals, which is why we don't see a lot of attacks on them (yet). I don't have a problem with communists. I do believe that they're coming from a good place, but are fundamentally mistaken in their analysis which does lead some of them down some very dark paths. It just feels like believing in the geocentric model of the universe (or flat earth, I suppose that's more current), which sounds like lots of fun, but would turn weird if you start to realize the person you're talking to actually believes it and isn't joking.
aww_dang 5y ago
>It's sad you feel as if you have to apologize preemptively for asking a question. Unfortunately, without disclaimers someone is bound to misinterpret the comment. If the comment isn't defensively worded in a way to explicitly prevent bad faith interpretations, someone is bound to come tilting. It is difficult if not impossible to imagine all the ways a given comment might be interpreted. Even seemingly unambiguous passages are construed to mean opposing things. That's just where we are.

roflc0ptic 5y ago

... yeah, I don't know about any radical environmentalists or communists aiming for data centers. Radical environmentalists want to blow up other things.

luckylion 5y ago
I consider Kaczynski an environmentalist and he's an anarchist. Take a time machine and move him straight from 1978 to 2018, what would he target? My guess is data centers would be on the list.
- roflc0ptic 5y ago
  But that’s total conjecture. You’re just saying “well, if I made someone up, they’d target data centers.” My point is that the non-made up radical environmentalists/communists aren’t targeting data centers. My source is that in a previous iteration of this life, I happened to know a lot of communists and radical environmentalists.
  - luckylion 5y ago
    Kaczynski isn't made up, he really existed, and still does. He's not a communist though, and I don't think communists have an issue with data centers, they love making lists as well. I'm not sure about your communists friends' positions on data centers if they felt they were being used as a tool of oppression, but I have a hard time imagining someone being unironically communist these days.
    - roflc0ptic 5y ago
      Kaczynski is real, but time traveler Kaczynski is not. The radical environmentalists Im familiar with are focused on protecting forests, or (the more ambitious ones) want to destroy power infrastructure. Blowing up data centers would be kind of a half measure for e.g. the deep green resistance crowd - if you’re willing to die for it, might as well go for the throat For a taste of unironic communism in 2021: https://www.pslweb.org/ https://www.pslweb.org/ Some good people, some bad people, all in the throes of some pretty terrible ideology. shrug To be clear, not endorsing any of these ideological positions, just happen to be familiar with them owing to a misspent youth.
      - luckylion 5y ago
        It would fit well for Kaczynski's mix of anarchism, anti-smart-tech-revolution and environmentalism, I believe. He went after AI researchers back then, attacking their hardware would make sense. I mean, I'm probably just a few years and a few bad turns away from seeing AWS & co ("Surveillance Capitalism, Inc.") as a large harm to humanity that needs to be stopped, so I'd be surprised if nobody is thinking that today. The scale of data centers likely makes them super hard targets for the super majority of groups or individuals, which is why we don't see a lot of attacks on them (yet). I don't have a problem with communists. I do believe that they're coming from a good place, but are fundamentally mistaken in their analysis which does lead some of them down some very dark paths. It just feels like believing in the geocentric model of the universe (or flat earth, I suppose that's more current), which sounds like lots of fun, but would turn weird if you start to realize the person you're talking to actually believes it and isn't joking.

aww_dang 5y ago

>It's sad you feel as if you have to apologize preemptively for asking a question. Unfortunately, without disclaimers someone is bound to misinterpret the comment. If the comment isn't defensively worded in a way to explicitly prevent bad faith interpretations, someone is bound to come tilting. It is difficult if not impossible to imagine all the ways a given comment might be interpreted. Even seemingly unambiguous passages are construed to mean opposing things. That's just where we are.