5 ms·

While we're at it, can we stop replacing physical knobs and buttons by dumb touch sensitive buttons ? I feel like a cave man when I have to repeatedly press "+"

While we're at it, can we stop replacing physical knobs and buttons by dumb touch sensitive buttons ? I feel like a cave man when I have to repeatedly press "+" on my induction hob and hear the stupid beep it makes x times. Plus it does not work well when it's wet which of course happens a lot, it's a kitchen ffs. A good example of "backwards" progress unless of course the ease of cleaning your hob is more important to you than using it for you know, cooking.

kowlo 6y ago
Using my induction hob is a nightmare for this reason.
talliedthoughts 6y ago
Another possible reason for not having physical buttons is waterproofing. There would need to be a small gap between the button and the hob surface, and water or cooking oil could get in there, causing issues with the electronics, in addition to making it harder to clean.
- elric 6y ago
  How common was water damage to hobs before physical buttons were removed? I'm guessing not very. Maybe there's a bit of cost saving involved when manufactoring hobs without buttons. But I'd much rather pay a couple of extra currency units and get something that's user friendly.
  - KineticLensman 6y ago
    > How common was water damage to hobs before physical buttons were removed? I'm guessing not very. I think this is correct - not much damage. I used gas hobs for decades with various types of buttons and knobs. With appropriate recesses, washers, etc not much spilt water got past them, but the resultant complex surfaces were difficult to clean.
- bserge 6y ago
  I liked hardware buttons hidden beneath a polymer layer (to simulate the look of touch buttons). Easy to use, clean and waterproof. The downside was that the plastic layer sometimes came off after a few years on cheap appliances and needed re-gluing. Better than a failed touch panel, though.
- cassepipe 6y ago
  This is actually a very easy problem to solve with minimal design : Just find a way to isolate the knobs from the main cooking area. Like this but with induction : https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gas+hob+&t=fpas&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Faffordableappliances.b-cdn.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F147%2F2018%2F06%2FStoves-SGH600C-60cm-4-Burner-Gas-Hob-Black-4.jpg https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gas+hob+&t=fpas&iax=images&ia=imag...
elric 6y ago
I find that they're not even easier to clean. When I clean my hob and the button area gets a bit wet, it will randomly turn on. Turning cleaning into a potentially painful affair.
globular-toast 6y ago
Also currently have an induction hob and hate it for the very same reason. Well, I also hate it because induction is complete crap for cooking. Mine has two settings: 0-6 = nothing, 7 = burnt. I've no idea what 8 and 9 are for (maybe boiling water, but it's still slower than my kettle). Then add the fact that it tries to regulate heat by cycling on and off, meaning you cycle between burning and nothing, and it makes an annoying sound while doing so. Plus the fact it heats a pathetically small area in the middle of the pan and nothing else, making frying an egg way more difficult than it should be. Luckily I'm going back to gas very soon.
- microtherion 6y ago
  I assume you already have experimented with different pans, and have experienced the same difficulties with all of them? I would agree that gas is still superior, but overall, induction has been working extremely well for us, and the safety benefit around smaller children may outweigh the culinary benefits of gas cooking for us.
  - lupire 6y ago
    Gas is also toxic.
    - microtherion 6y ago
      Around here, the gas used for cooking is natural gas, which is not toxic in the technical sense of the word, though one could theoretically suffocate from it. I say "theoretically" because I can't recall hearing of a single instance of such a death, while deaths from e.g. carbon monoxide poisoning are far from uncommon.
      - swiley 6y ago
        It feels toxic enough. I always open the back door when we have our natural gas oven on because it makes breathing unpleasant otherwise.
gioele 6y ago
> While we're at it, can we stop replacing physical knobs and buttons by dumb touch sensitive buttons ? I feel like a cave man when I have to repeatedly press "+" on my induction hob and hear the stupid beep it makes x times. Most induction systems can be controlled by ovens that have physical knobs. For example the AEG EU327MDE [1]. The hob-oven interface is more or less standardized. For unfathomable reasons such combined "induction hobs + compatible oven with physical controls" are not sold in all markets worldwide. [1] https://www.euronics.de/haus-und-haushalt/kochen-und-backen/einbaugeraete/herd-sets/eu327mde-herdset-mit-induktionskochfeld-bestehend-aus-ee3003031m-hem63400x-b-edelstahl-cleansteel-4055204339537 https://www.euronics.de/haus-und-haushalt/kochen-und-backen/...
schwartzworld 6y ago
There's a place for everything. My cpap machine has the loudest clickiest physical button of anything in my house, much to my wife's displeasure. I wonder every day why they put a heavy clicky button on something you use in bed with a sleeping partner.
- gumby 6y ago
  Perhaps so you can tell if it activated or not. Plus their user base skews older so some proportion may have hearing problems. I don’t use a CPAP machine so don’t know if this matters (perhaps it’s obvious when it’s on/off). Just speculating on your “I wonder every day” comment.
  - gumby 6y ago
    Also the CPAP machine is regulated as a medical device, so then fr is required by the FDA to certify that the machine has a certain lifespan, which includes cycle times on things like switches. It’s likely that a big mechanical device which is over specified in its lifetime is an easy way to solve a problem so design attention can be directed elsewhere.
    - schwartzworld 6y ago
      Even so, I can't imagine there isn't a less clucky button.
  - schwartzworld 6y ago
    It's very obvious when it's on or off. The machine has been well designed with a11y in mind, so it lights up and has icons. Also, it inflates your upper respiratory tract like a balloon, which is pretty hard to miss.
- meowster 6y ago
  So next year they can sell "quieter buttons" as a new feature?
protomyth 6y ago
My Kia Niro kept physical buttons, but uses up/down buttons for fan speed. It drives me crazy. I wish ranges were knobs and buttons were discrete selectors. Touch controls are distractors while driving.
wodenokoto 6y ago
> A good example of "backwards" progress unless of course the ease of cleaning your hob is more important to you than using it for you know, cooking. They’re also fewer parts, more resistant to dirt, can’t break off, takes less space during shipping, and looks better in brochures and showrooms. I’m not saying I prefer using them but I am not surprised at their success.
- iFreilicht 6y ago
  Another reason is apparently modularity. There’s an increasing demand in wider stovetops with more or larger heaters, induction and so on, and having all controls on the top itself means users can combine all ovens with all stovetops. Additionally, ovens at eye-height are becoming more popular, so in some cases there isn’t even an oven below the cooktop. You could have physical knobs on the top, but those interfere with the pots and sealing them against spills is hard. The only decent solutions I’ve seen are magnetic knobs and a dedicated knob bar that is installed at the face, with drawers below it, but those are much more expensive to produce.
shard 6y ago
> While we're at it, can we stop replacing physical knobs and buttons by dumb touch sensitive buttons ? I feel like a cave man when I have to repeatedly press "+" on my induction hob and hear the stupid beep it makes x times That's a UI design choice not inherent to the functionality. My induction stove has a touch strip where I can choose the heat intensity directly without having to go through intermediate states. It's actual more convenient than the analog dial on my gas range, in a sense, because the gas range dial only has low/medium/high zones, and I have to remember 2/3 medium for eggs and 1/4 high for steak, as opposed to 3 for eggs and 8 for steak on the induction stove.

kowlo 6y ago

Using my induction hob is a nightmare for this reason.

talliedthoughts 6y ago

Another possible reason for not having physical buttons is waterproofing. There would need to be a small gap between the button and the hob surface, and water or cooking oil could get in there, causing issues with the electronics, in addition to making it harder to clean.

elric 6y ago
How common was water damage to hobs before physical buttons were removed? I'm guessing not very. Maybe there's a bit of cost saving involved when manufactoring hobs without buttons. But I'd much rather pay a couple of extra currency units and get something that's user friendly.
- KineticLensman 6y ago
  > How common was water damage to hobs before physical buttons were removed? I'm guessing not very. I think this is correct - not much damage. I used gas hobs for decades with various types of buttons and knobs. With appropriate recesses, washers, etc not much spilt water got past them, but the resultant complex surfaces were difficult to clean.
bserge 6y ago
I liked hardware buttons hidden beneath a polymer layer (to simulate the look of touch buttons). Easy to use, clean and waterproof. The downside was that the plastic layer sometimes came off after a few years on cheap appliances and needed re-gluing. Better than a failed touch panel, though.
cassepipe 6y ago
This is actually a very easy problem to solve with minimal design : Just find a way to isolate the knobs from the main cooking area. Like this but with induction : https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gas+hob+&t=fpas&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Faffordableappliances.b-cdn.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F147%2F2018%2F06%2FStoves-SGH600C-60cm-4-Burner-Gas-Hob-Black-4.jpg https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gas+hob+&t=fpas&iax=images&ia=imag...

elric 6y ago

I find that they're not even easier to clean. When I clean my hob and the button area gets a bit wet, it will randomly turn on. Turning cleaning into a potentially painful affair.

globular-toast 6y ago

Also currently have an induction hob and hate it for the very same reason. Well, I also hate it because induction is complete crap for cooking. Mine has two settings: 0-6 = nothing, 7 = burnt. I've no idea what 8 and 9 are for (maybe boiling water, but it's still slower than my kettle). Then add the fact that it tries to regulate heat by cycling on and off, meaning you cycle between burning and nothing, and it makes an annoying sound while doing so. Plus the fact it heats a pathetically small area in the middle of the pan and nothing else, making frying an egg way more difficult than it should be. Luckily I'm going back to gas very soon.

microtherion 6y ago
I assume you already have experimented with different pans, and have experienced the same difficulties with all of them? I would agree that gas is still superior, but overall, induction has been working extremely well for us, and the safety benefit around smaller children may outweigh the culinary benefits of gas cooking for us.
- lupire 6y ago
  Gas is also toxic.
  - microtherion 6y ago
    Around here, the gas used for cooking is natural gas, which is not toxic in the technical sense of the word, though one could theoretically suffocate from it. I say "theoretically" because I can't recall hearing of a single instance of such a death, while deaths from e.g. carbon monoxide poisoning are far from uncommon.
    - swiley 6y ago
      It feels toxic enough. I always open the back door when we have our natural gas oven on because it makes breathing unpleasant otherwise.

gioele 6y ago

> While we're at it, can we stop replacing physical knobs and buttons by dumb touch sensitive buttons ? I feel like a cave man when I have to repeatedly press "+" on my induction hob and hear the stupid beep it makes x times. Most induction systems can be controlled by ovens that have physical knobs. For example the AEG EU327MDE [1]. The hob-oven interface is more or less standardized. For unfathomable reasons such combined "induction hobs + compatible oven with physical controls" are not sold in all markets worldwide. [1] https://www.euronics.de/haus-und-haushalt/kochen-und-backen/einbaugeraete/herd-sets/eu327mde-herdset-mit-induktionskochfeld-bestehend-aus-ee3003031m-hem63400x-b-edelstahl-cleansteel-4055204339537 https://www.euronics.de/haus-und-haushalt/kochen-und-backen/...

schwartzworld 6y ago

There's a place for everything. My cpap machine has the loudest clickiest physical button of anything in my house, much to my wife's displeasure. I wonder every day why they put a heavy clicky button on something you use in bed with a sleeping partner.

gumby 6y ago
Perhaps so you can tell if it activated or not. Plus their user base skews older so some proportion may have hearing problems. I don’t use a CPAP machine so don’t know if this matters (perhaps it’s obvious when it’s on/off). Just speculating on your “I wonder every day” comment.
- gumby 6y ago
  Also the CPAP machine is regulated as a medical device, so then fr is required by the FDA to certify that the machine has a certain lifespan, which includes cycle times on things like switches. It’s likely that a big mechanical device which is over specified in its lifetime is an easy way to solve a problem so design attention can be directed elsewhere.
  - schwartzworld 6y ago
    Even so, I can't imagine there isn't a less clucky button.
- schwartzworld 6y ago
  It's very obvious when it's on or off. The machine has been well designed with a11y in mind, so it lights up and has icons. Also, it inflates your upper respiratory tract like a balloon, which is pretty hard to miss.
meowster 6y ago
So next year they can sell "quieter buttons" as a new feature?

protomyth 6y ago

My Kia Niro kept physical buttons, but uses up/down buttons for fan speed. It drives me crazy. I wish ranges were knobs and buttons were discrete selectors. Touch controls are distractors while driving.

wodenokoto 6y ago

> A good example of "backwards" progress unless of course the ease of cleaning your hob is more important to you than using it for you know, cooking. They’re also fewer parts, more resistant to dirt, can’t break off, takes less space during shipping, and looks better in brochures and showrooms. I’m not saying I prefer using them but I am not surprised at their success.

iFreilicht 6y ago
Another reason is apparently modularity. There’s an increasing demand in wider stovetops with more or larger heaters, induction and so on, and having all controls on the top itself means users can combine all ovens with all stovetops. Additionally, ovens at eye-height are becoming more popular, so in some cases there isn’t even an oven below the cooktop. You could have physical knobs on the top, but those interfere with the pots and sealing them against spills is hard. The only decent solutions I’ve seen are magnetic knobs and a dedicated knob bar that is installed at the face, with drawers below it, but those are much more expensive to produce.

shard 6y ago

> While we're at it, can we stop replacing physical knobs and buttons by dumb touch sensitive buttons ? I feel like a cave man when I have to repeatedly press "+" on my induction hob and hear the stupid beep it makes x times That's a UI design choice not inherent to the functionality. My induction stove has a touch strip where I can choose the heat intensity directly without having to go through intermediate states. It's actual more convenient than the analog dial on my gas range, in a sense, because the gas range dial only has low/medium/high zones, and I have to remember 2/3 medium for eggs and 1/4 high for steak, as opposed to 3 for eggs and 8 for steak on the induction stove.