7 ms·

Uber drops fares for SF Taxi strike

91 points by BornInTheUSSR 15y ago

masterzora 15y ago
I definitely understand the cabbies' concerns about prices, but this is huge for Uber. As the cabbies seek to shorten the gap between taxi prices and Uber prices and shut down for an entire day, Uber swoops in with a huge customer acquisition push. This won't be the death of the cabs, but I'll love to see how Uber makes out on the deal.
- pavel_lishin 15y ago
  I hope they're advertising it enough that people who have never heard of Uber actually use them.
  - masterzora 15y ago
    That's an excellent point. I don't know what kind of advertising Uber is actually using, but my Twitter anecdata says that there's already starting to be a nice bit of viral push to go with it. I really hope it'll be significant, because I absolutely love Uber and I'm planning on fully supporting them tomorrow.
    - pavel_lishin 15y ago
      Wouldn't it make more sense for Uber's supporters to avoid using them tomorrow, thus freeing up more of their fleet for potential new converts?
  - cbailey 15y ago
    I hope their advertising doesn't attract more negative attention from the local government.
- pitdesi 15y ago
  There have been several times recently where I was unable to use Uber because there were no Ubercabs available. I wonder if the demand will be too much for the system to handle... though presumably they've got all hands on deck tomorrow.
  - klochner 15y ago
    If uber wants to make sure everyone who wants a taxi can get one, they should raise prices, otherwise they're ensuring an uber shortage. simple supply/demand economics.
    - potatolicious 15y ago
      Um... you're presuming a fixed supply of uber cars. This simply is not true, especially in the medium/long term. Raising prices amidst extreme demand is a good way to maximize profit on the supply you do have, but expanding your supply to fulfill demand is almost certainly the better course in the long run.
      - klochner 15y ago
        Um, seriously? Uber is dropping their fares only for the duration of the taxi strike, ostensibly to make sure "ordinary folks can get around the city while the taxi drivers strike to get a fair deal." During the strike (viz., the 'short term') there will likely be a shortage of cars, including uber cars. Lowering their prices will only make it harder to get an uber car during the strike.
        potatolicious 15y ago
        It looks like we're arguing about different things. Someone brought up that Uber cars are already hard to book (strike or no strike), and my point was that instead of raising prices to maximize profit, one would be much better served to expand the fleet instead. In any case, even in the context of the strike, presumably Uber has longer-term plans than just tomorrow - raising their prices, while following the laws of supply/demand, is going to smack of gouging, and will naturally do far more damage in the long run than whatever extra profit they can derive.
- mcantelon 15y ago
  I know I'll never use their services now.
brezina 15y ago
not sure if promoting this to existing customers was a good idea for uber. They sent me the marketing email. I'm a happy customer. But i didn't realize their prices were 2X cab prices. Now that is stuck in my head every time I call an uber
- bdittmer 15y ago
  They are pretty open about the fact most fares are around 2x that of a normal taxi.
- lanstein 15y ago
  no offense, but how is it that you both did not realize that and care? didn't you first check the price?
- michaelochurch 15y ago
  That was my thought as well. Bay Area cabs are disgustingly overpriced already, especially with that slimy 50% surcharge they include if you go to, e.g. Palo Alto. Anything that destroys the medallion mafia I support, however. Cabs aren't expensive because cabbies are living it up, but because of a class of parasitic rent-seekers who really need to be washed into the ocean.
MatthewPhillips 15y ago
So why are Uber fares higher than taxis on a typical day?
- chrischen 15y ago
  They get limo drivers to pick you up in a lincoln town car.
  - yakto 15y ago
    I've been the lucky rider of a Mercedes AMG the three times I've used Uber in SOMA.
    - lanstein 15y ago
      I've also been picked up in that S550 in SoMa. Technically, it's not an AMG motor though, only the trim is AMG :)
- masterzora 15y ago
  A few reasons. Convenience: * There's a very easy-to-use app to request a driver that shows the locations of nearby cars and an estimate on how long it'll take for a car to arrive. No need to try and flag down a cab or call a company. * Payment is done via stored credit card info, so no need to worry about paying at the end of the ride. No need to worry about tip, either. Comfort: * The town car is far more comfortable than a normal taxi. Nice seats, ample leg room (and I'm a large guy), no ads, actually useful air conditioning. * There are magazines to read, if that's your thing. Some of the cars seem to be wifi equipped (one of my drivers has told me that that car had wifi, at least). Experience * They definitely ride the line between limo and taxi, to the point where I can't help but laugh. The driver even hops out of the car to open the door for you! Really, if you're in SF, it's worth checking out Uber at least once.
  - silencio 15y ago
    > The driver even hops out of the car to open the door for you! I loved this the last time I used uber. The driver went as far as to hold out his arm for me to lean on while I was getting into the car, which was a great help because I was having unpredictable dizzy spells all morning long. Then he drove like a maniac so I could get to SFO in time to catch my flight, and he deposited my luggage next to curbside baggage check. Taxi drivers generally don't go that far, they'll just haul your bags out and leave them on the road in my experience :( Not to mention I had over two dozen taxis, most of them empty, ignore me as I spent a futile 15 minutes to hail a cab on Market Street before I gave up and used uber. Not my problem if they don't want $50, and uber was only $65 in comparison..
sciurus 15y ago
The taxi strike is described at http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cityinsider/detail?entry_id=91202 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cityinsider/detail?entry... "From noon to 2 p.m. on Tuesday, taxi drivers are being urged to park their cabs to protest the practice of charging drivers 5 percent of every credit card transaction, the consideration of an electronic tracking system and an idea to put more taxis on the street."
- potatolicious 15y ago
  Heh, they're opposing more cabs on the street? Well there's a surefire way to endear your cause to the people of the city...
  - grandalf 15y ago
    The SF taxi system is highly corrupt. I hope the taxi companies go out of business and their cronies in SF city government get fired.
  - mikeryan 15y ago
    I'm not going to comment on the taxi regulation system in SF because its pretty ugly. But the drivers have to drive for about 15-20 years to win a medallion. SF is changing this process and wants to start selling medallions for about $250,000. If you're at the top of the list (ie you've been waiting 15 years) you get first chance at buying a medallion but you're SOL if you don't have the 12K deposit. If I were someone near the top of the list but hadn't been saving up I'd be pretty pissed too.
kai-zer 15y ago
Why would you drop prices when there is no competition? Makes no sense. Basic supply and demand.
- bhickey 15y ago
  There is competition. People might take buses, or trollies, or BART. They could also walk, carpool or hitchhike.
- mestudent 15y ago
  Customer acquisition and advertisement.
- natesm 15y ago
  I hadn't heard of this business until now (admittedly I am not in the correct location). Now I have.
  - masterzora 15y ago
    Even if you're not in the correct location, you might be some time. I've got a friend who's going to be in SF from out of state tomorrow and he's decided to check out Uber because of this.
- masterzora 15y ago
  Gouging may be good for a day (assuming there weren't other good transport options, which is simply untrue in SF), but it sucks as an acquisition method. My experience with Uber was essentially: (1) "Hey, it sounds great, but that's a bit pricey. It can't really be worth it, can it?" (2) Decided to take someone to dinner via Uber because it was more impressive than a cab. (3) "Hey, this is actually pretty cool and totally worth it." (4) I'm now a repeat customer, even when traveling alone. In my eyes, the key is that they need to find a step (2) for a more general case. Having a day where there are no cabs might be a small push, but having a day where there are no cabs and Uber is the price you would have paid anyway is absolutely killer. Short answer: Long-term thinking is better for them than short-term thinking.
ryanf 15y ago
It's bizarre that they're trying to spin this as pro-taxi-driver. I can't tell if they really believe taxi drivers would be happy with them for doing this, or if they're just cynically positioning themselves as "for the people" to erode public support for the union (or score PR points from public disdain for the union, I guess).
- bhickey 15y ago
  Their drivers aren't taxi drivers in the sense that they don't drive medallion cabs. Medallions in major cities are a scarce, and outrageously expensive on secondary markets. Uber's interests here are aligned with their drivers, not traditional hackney carriage drivers. Edit: I'm a dope. See child.
  - ryanf 15y ago
    Right, but the text of this blog post claims in multiple places that they're supporting traditional cab drivers somehow. "Taxi drivers are going on strike, and while they circle City Hall in hopes of getting a better deal..." "...making sure ordinary folks can get around the city while the taxi drivers strike to get a fair deal." "Furthermore, we want to put a word of support out there to the hard working taxi drivers in San Francisco..." As far as I can tell, the reality is that they're deliberately undercutting the strike and profiting by it. Which may or may not be justifiable (I don't know anything about the strike), but it's certainly not supportive.
    - jamesaguilar 15y ago
      I think they mean "better deal" to be taken ironically by the readers, who likely have little sympathy for cab drivers. Unlike most public unions who are paid by taxes, the electorate is directly and visibly affected by taxi price hikes. So public support for them is naturally much lower than the unions the rich people pay for. Probably anyone reading this is laughing along. They are thinking that fifty cents per thousand feet driven is more than a fair fare (that is the current rate for SF cabs). Edit: it appears the strike is more about the credit card fees companies charge the cabbies, digital tracking of the cabs, tvs in the back seats which show adverts to passengers, and various other anti-consumer and anti-driver practices. In this case, I can see that public support might be a little higher. I don't like either cabbies or cab companies, but if I had to pick which I like least, it's obviously the companies. In this case, the fair deal bit might be meant unironically.
abeppu 15y ago
That's a downright twisted use of the word "solidarity".
- mcantelon 15y ago
  Yeah, if they're going to be scabs, and undermine the leverage that striking creates, they should at least be up front about it.
  - anigbrowl 15y ago
    'Scabs'? The taxi firms have bent over backward to keep competition out of the market, and now you're saying they should get solidarity because they want to hold consumers hostage to their monopolistic demands? Consumers who already pay more for their cabs than in any other US city?
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - michaelochurch 15y ago
      Thank you. "Scab" is inappropriate because a scab is someone who works for the company that the strike is against.
  - chrischen 15y ago
    Uber is not undermining the leverage the strike is creating. The cab companies are still losing money from not operating. It's just that now people who needed cabs to get around aren't as screwed as they would be if no driving services were operating.
antihero 15y ago
Bloody scabs! At a time when unions worldwide need solidarity and they're undercutting them. Nice one. I guess this is the lovely caring capitalism we've been hearing about.
- oh_sigh 15y ago
  So - are people just supposed to not leave their house because taxi drivers decide to not work on a given day? This is San Francisco. Public transit sucks, and owning a car sucks(though less than public transit). Many people rely on taxis for their livelihood and they will be screwed over if they can't go places tomorrow, regardless of the reason why.
  - TheAlan 15y ago
    This is the very POINT of strikes to show that you matter, and that people shouldn't just take you for granted.
    - qq66 15y ago
      And Uber is showing that the passengers matter, and that the cabbies shouldn't take them for granted. It's just two more moves in the endless battle for power and resources.
    - kjksf 15y ago
      Except the only reason taxis can "show that they matter" by shutting down is because they've been given a monopoly from government (via medallion system). The result of this monopoly, at least in San Francisco, is a shortage of cabs, poor customer service from cabs and high prices. All this strike proves is that no matter how good they have it, they'll always ask for more. The fact that cab drivers also managed to form a union means nothing other than they're smart because they can leverage that to get a good deal for themselves (at the expense of every other person living in San Francisco). Forming a union doesn't suddenly entitle them to anything. Uber is a long due competition to cabs. It improves the lives of people living in San Francisco. If cabs can't compete, then they deserve to lose and Uber has every right to compete with them. That is the point of capitalism: ability to compete. Taxis don't deserve special treatment. Neither does Uber, for that matter.
jaekwon 15y ago
i wondered if this was as gray moral area, but I couldn't find a single reason why this hurts traditional cabbies. In fact, the fact that uber has the cabbies' back in terms of serving the city, makes it a win-win situation for everyone involved except the target of the cabbies' strike cries. If you are a cab driver and you're upset by this marketing gimmick, holler.

91 points by BornInTheUSSR 15y ago

I definitely understand the cabbies' concerns about prices, but this is huge for Uber. As the cabbies seek to shorten the gap between taxi prices and Uber prices and shut down for an entire day, Uber swoops in with a huge customer acquisition push. This won't be the death of the cabs, but I'll love to see how Uber makes out on the deal.

pavel_lishin 15y ago
I hope they're advertising it enough that people who have never heard of Uber actually use them.
- masterzora 15y ago
  That's an excellent point. I don't know what kind of advertising Uber is actually using, but my Twitter anecdata says that there's already starting to be a nice bit of viral push to go with it. I really hope it'll be significant, because I absolutely love Uber and I'm planning on fully supporting them tomorrow.
  - pavel_lishin 15y ago
    Wouldn't it make more sense for Uber's supporters to avoid using them tomorrow, thus freeing up more of their fleet for potential new converts?
- cbailey 15y ago
  I hope their advertising doesn't attract more negative attention from the local government.
pitdesi 15y ago
There have been several times recently where I was unable to use Uber because there were no Ubercabs available. I wonder if the demand will be too much for the system to handle... though presumably they've got all hands on deck tomorrow.
- klochner 15y ago
  If uber wants to make sure everyone who wants a taxi can get one, they should raise prices, otherwise they're ensuring an uber shortage. simple supply/demand economics.
  - potatolicious 15y ago
    Um... you're presuming a fixed supply of uber cars. This simply is not true, especially in the medium/long term. Raising prices amidst extreme demand is a good way to maximize profit on the supply you do have, but expanding your supply to fulfill demand is almost certainly the better course in the long run.
    - klochner 15y ago
      Um, seriously? Uber is dropping their fares only for the duration of the taxi strike, ostensibly to make sure "ordinary folks can get around the city while the taxi drivers strike to get a fair deal." During the strike (viz., the 'short term') there will likely be a shortage of cars, including uber cars. Lowering their prices will only make it harder to get an uber car during the strike.
      - potatolicious 15y ago
        It looks like we're arguing about different things. Someone brought up that Uber cars are already hard to book (strike or no strike), and my point was that instead of raising prices to maximize profit, one would be much better served to expand the fleet instead. In any case, even in the context of the strike, presumably Uber has longer-term plans than just tomorrow - raising their prices, while following the laws of supply/demand, is going to smack of gouging, and will naturally do far more damage in the long run than whatever extra profit they can derive.
mcantelon 15y ago
I know I'll never use their services now.

brezina 15y ago

not sure if promoting this to existing customers was a good idea for uber. They sent me the marketing email. I'm a happy customer. But i didn't realize their prices were 2X cab prices. Now that is stuck in my head every time I call an uber

bdittmer 15y ago
They are pretty open about the fact most fares are around 2x that of a normal taxi.
lanstein 15y ago
no offense, but how is it that you both did not realize that and care? didn't you first check the price?
michaelochurch 15y ago
That was my thought as well. Bay Area cabs are disgustingly overpriced already, especially with that slimy 50% surcharge they include if you go to, e.g. Palo Alto. Anything that destroys the medallion mafia I support, however. Cabs aren't expensive because cabbies are living it up, but because of a class of parasitic rent-seekers who really need to be washed into the ocean.

MatthewPhillips 15y ago

So why are Uber fares higher than taxis on a typical day?

chrischen 15y ago
They get limo drivers to pick you up in a lincoln town car.
- yakto 15y ago
  I've been the lucky rider of a Mercedes AMG the three times I've used Uber in SOMA.
  - lanstein 15y ago
    I've also been picked up in that S550 in SoMa. Technically, it's not an AMG motor though, only the trim is AMG :)
masterzora 15y ago
A few reasons. Convenience: * There's a very easy-to-use app to request a driver that shows the locations of nearby cars and an estimate on how long it'll take for a car to arrive. No need to try and flag down a cab or call a company. * Payment is done via stored credit card info, so no need to worry about paying at the end of the ride. No need to worry about tip, either. Comfort: * The town car is far more comfortable than a normal taxi. Nice seats, ample leg room (and I'm a large guy), no ads, actually useful air conditioning. * There are magazines to read, if that's your thing. Some of the cars seem to be wifi equipped (one of my drivers has told me that that car had wifi, at least). Experience * They definitely ride the line between limo and taxi, to the point where I can't help but laugh. The driver even hops out of the car to open the door for you! Really, if you're in SF, it's worth checking out Uber at least once.
- silencio 15y ago
  > The driver even hops out of the car to open the door for you! I loved this the last time I used uber. The driver went as far as to hold out his arm for me to lean on while I was getting into the car, which was a great help because I was having unpredictable dizzy spells all morning long. Then he drove like a maniac so I could get to SFO in time to catch my flight, and he deposited my luggage next to curbside baggage check. Taxi drivers generally don't go that far, they'll just haul your bags out and leave them on the road in my experience :( Not to mention I had over two dozen taxis, most of them empty, ignore me as I spent a futile 15 minutes to hail a cab on Market Street before I gave up and used uber. Not my problem if they don't want $50, and uber was only $65 in comparison..

sciurus 15y ago

The taxi strike is described at http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cityinsider/detail?entry_id=91202 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cityinsider/detail?entry... "From noon to 2 p.m. on Tuesday, taxi drivers are being urged to park their cabs to protest the practice of charging drivers 5 percent of every credit card transaction, the consideration of an electronic tracking system and an idea to put more taxis on the street."

potatolicious 15y ago
Heh, they're opposing more cabs on the street? Well there's a surefire way to endear your cause to the people of the city...
- grandalf 15y ago
  The SF taxi system is highly corrupt. I hope the taxi companies go out of business and their cronies in SF city government get fired.
- mikeryan 15y ago
  I'm not going to comment on the taxi regulation system in SF because its pretty ugly. But the drivers have to drive for about 15-20 years to win a medallion. SF is changing this process and wants to start selling medallions for about $250,000. If you're at the top of the list (ie you've been waiting 15 years) you get first chance at buying a medallion but you're SOL if you don't have the 12K deposit. If I were someone near the top of the list but hadn't been saving up I'd be pretty pissed too.

kai-zer 15y ago

Why would you drop prices when there is no competition? Makes no sense. Basic supply and demand.

bhickey 15y ago
There is competition. People might take buses, or trollies, or BART. They could also walk, carpool or hitchhike.
mestudent 15y ago
Customer acquisition and advertisement.
natesm 15y ago
I hadn't heard of this business until now (admittedly I am not in the correct location). Now I have.
- masterzora 15y ago
  Even if you're not in the correct location, you might be some time. I've got a friend who's going to be in SF from out of state tomorrow and he's decided to check out Uber because of this.
masterzora 15y ago
Gouging may be good for a day (assuming there weren't other good transport options, which is simply untrue in SF), but it sucks as an acquisition method. My experience with Uber was essentially: (1) "Hey, it sounds great, but that's a bit pricey. It can't really be worth it, can it?" (2) Decided to take someone to dinner via Uber because it was more impressive than a cab. (3) "Hey, this is actually pretty cool and totally worth it." (4) I'm now a repeat customer, even when traveling alone. In my eyes, the key is that they need to find a step (2) for a more general case. Having a day where there are no cabs might be a small push, but having a day where there are no cabs and Uber is the price you would have paid anyway is absolutely killer. Short answer: Long-term thinking is better for them than short-term thinking.

ryanf 15y ago

It's bizarre that they're trying to spin this as pro-taxi-driver. I can't tell if they really believe taxi drivers would be happy with them for doing this, or if they're just cynically positioning themselves as "for the people" to erode public support for the union (or score PR points from public disdain for the union, I guess).

bhickey 15y ago
Their drivers aren't taxi drivers in the sense that they don't drive medallion cabs. Medallions in major cities are a scarce, and outrageously expensive on secondary markets. Uber's interests here are aligned with their drivers, not traditional hackney carriage drivers. Edit: I'm a dope. See child.
- ryanf 15y ago
  Right, but the text of this blog post claims in multiple places that they're supporting traditional cab drivers somehow. "Taxi drivers are going on strike, and while they circle City Hall in hopes of getting a better deal..." "...making sure ordinary folks can get around the city while the taxi drivers strike to get a fair deal." "Furthermore, we want to put a word of support out there to the hard working taxi drivers in San Francisco..." As far as I can tell, the reality is that they're deliberately undercutting the strike and profiting by it. Which may or may not be justifiable (I don't know anything about the strike), but it's certainly not supportive.
  - jamesaguilar 15y ago
    I think they mean "better deal" to be taken ironically by the readers, who likely have little sympathy for cab drivers. Unlike most public unions who are paid by taxes, the electorate is directly and visibly affected by taxi price hikes. So public support for them is naturally much lower than the unions the rich people pay for. Probably anyone reading this is laughing along. They are thinking that fifty cents per thousand feet driven is more than a fair fare (that is the current rate for SF cabs). Edit: it appears the strike is more about the credit card fees companies charge the cabbies, digital tracking of the cabs, tvs in the back seats which show adverts to passengers, and various other anti-consumer and anti-driver practices. In this case, I can see that public support might be a little higher. I don't like either cabbies or cab companies, but if I had to pick which I like least, it's obviously the companies. In this case, the fair deal bit might be meant unironically.

abeppu 15y ago

That's a downright twisted use of the word "solidarity".

mcantelon 15y ago
Yeah, if they're going to be scabs, and undermine the leverage that striking creates, they should at least be up front about it.
- anigbrowl 15y ago
  'Scabs'? The taxi firms have bent over backward to keep competition out of the market, and now you're saying they should get solidarity because they want to hold consumers hostage to their monopolistic demands? Consumers who already pay more for their cabs than in any other US city?
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - michaelochurch 15y ago
    Thank you. "Scab" is inappropriate because a scab is someone who works for the company that the strike is against.
- chrischen 15y ago
  Uber is not undermining the leverage the strike is creating. The cab companies are still losing money from not operating. It's just that now people who needed cabs to get around aren't as screwed as they would be if no driving services were operating.

antihero 15y ago

Bloody scabs! At a time when unions worldwide need solidarity and they're undercutting them. Nice one. I guess this is the lovely caring capitalism we've been hearing about.

oh_sigh 15y ago
So - are people just supposed to not leave their house because taxi drivers decide to not work on a given day? This is San Francisco. Public transit sucks, and owning a car sucks(though less than public transit). Many people rely on taxis for their livelihood and they will be screwed over if they can't go places tomorrow, regardless of the reason why.
- TheAlan 15y ago
  This is the very POINT of strikes to show that you matter, and that people shouldn't just take you for granted.
  - qq66 15y ago
    And Uber is showing that the passengers matter, and that the cabbies shouldn't take them for granted. It's just two more moves in the endless battle for power and resources.
  - kjksf 15y ago
    Except the only reason taxis can "show that they matter" by shutting down is because they've been given a monopoly from government (via medallion system). The result of this monopoly, at least in San Francisco, is a shortage of cabs, poor customer service from cabs and high prices. All this strike proves is that no matter how good they have it, they'll always ask for more. The fact that cab drivers also managed to form a union means nothing other than they're smart because they can leverage that to get a good deal for themselves (at the expense of every other person living in San Francisco). Forming a union doesn't suddenly entitle them to anything. Uber is a long due competition to cabs. It improves the lives of people living in San Francisco. If cabs can't compete, then they deserve to lose and Uber has every right to compete with them. That is the point of capitalism: ability to compete. Taxis don't deserve special treatment. Neither does Uber, for that matter.

jaekwon 15y ago

i wondered if this was as gray moral area, but I couldn't find a single reason why this hurts traditional cabbies. In fact, the fact that uber has the cabbies' back in terms of serving the city, makes it a win-win situation for everyone involved except the target of the cabbies' strike cries. If you are a cab driver and you're upset by this marketing gimmick, holler.