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> Alternatively, you could try to "reform" trains. Instead of long ones that depart every several minutes, why not single, lighter wagons that depart when you n

> Alternatively, you could try to "reform" trains. Instead of long ones that depart every several minutes, why not single, lighter wagons that depart when you need them? I think that would be a pain to manage and would lower throughput by a wide margin. As someone living in Paris, which supposedly has great public transportation (according to the local transit authority), what we need is more throughput. The main issue I see is there not being enough trains, even on the automated lines. They practically come one after the other during rush hour. I don't have the actual numbers, but as an onlooker, it seems as if as soon as one train has left the station, the next comes in. I think this is the best throughput they can get for the given station length. And yet, there are a few stations (mainly the "small ones") where you'll have to wait for up to ten minutes to be able to board a train, and even then you'll be squished by other passengers. That's because basically no one gets off the train at those stations, so no space frees up. I think the issue is clearly around getting on and off the train. So now that we have automatic trains with automated gates, they could have different kinds of trains for rush hour. For example, there could be much less or no seats at all and the train doors could open upwards. So instead of the people having to squish through small openings, they could get on and off through practically the whole length of the train.

te_chris 6y ago
I love this comment as you complain about waiting 10 minutes for a train. European transportation is a marvel.
- vladvasiliu 6y ago
  Well, those 10 minutes is say 8 trains passing on which you can't get, because they're all filled to the brim with people. And the one you manage to get on will also be so full that you'll have to push your way on it. I absolutely loath this and I'm relatively tall. I can't imagine what it's like being shorter than average and / or overweight. You can of course forget about carrying any kind of bag. Note I'm specifically talking about the metro inside of the city of Paris proper and some of its immediate suburbs. That's roughly a circle of say 20 km diameter. The "suburban trains" we have around here (the RER and a buch of similar other lines with a different name) do not run as often, even during peak rush hour. But they also get filled to the brim with people, except on those travel time is more around 1h instead of 10 minutes, so you get to really enjoy getting pressed together. Bonus points for there being no ventilation whatsoever (and I mean ventilation, as in moving air, not specifically air conditioning, which of course, hasn't reached these parts).
mattlondon 6y ago
Same here in London on the tube - if you need to wait more than 5 minutes you know that you basically have zero chance getting on the train that does arrive because it will be literally full of people - not just no seats left, but every possible available bit of physical space will have someone contorted into it, and the doors will slide against someone's back/arms/face as they slide close. There are only 4 doors per carraige on most trains, which means physically getting people in an out when it is entirely full is difficult. I've often thought that a train with no seats would be great, or ones where the entire side of the carriage just lifts up or rolls-up like a roller shutter would be a great timesaver and make everyone's lives a lot easier
iggldiggl 6y ago
> So now that we have automatic trains with automated gates, they could have different kinds of trains for rush hour. I don't quite see what automation has to do with this, though? Granted, with fully automated operation it's a little easier to shuffle trains around without having to worry about how that impacts the rosters of the humans operating the trains, but the main problem here is that it'd be extremely inefficient to keep a completely duplicate set of trains (and more) around just for rush hour. At most, you could try building the extra trains that only run doing peak hours to a separate design, but that still makes maintenance more complicated and means that only a relatively small fraction of trains (I don't have numbers for Paris at hand, but on the Underground in London it'd be e.g. 20 - 25 % at most) will actually be of the "super high" capacity design. So in my opinion the only really sensible thing if you want to go down that path would be to do what I've seen with some Japanese lines, namely use foldable longitudinal seating that can be remotely locked in the upright position and then unlocked again after the peak. As for > and the train doors could open upwards. So instead of the people having to squish through small openings, they could get on and off through practically the whole length of the train I don't know, that'd seem at least a bit dubious in terms of structural integrity, wouldn't it?

te_chris 6y ago

I love this comment as you complain about waiting 10 minutes for a train. European transportation is a marvel.

vladvasiliu 6y ago
Well, those 10 minutes is say 8 trains passing on which you can't get, because they're all filled to the brim with people. And the one you manage to get on will also be so full that you'll have to push your way on it. I absolutely loath this and I'm relatively tall. I can't imagine what it's like being shorter than average and / or overweight. You can of course forget about carrying any kind of bag. Note I'm specifically talking about the metro inside of the city of Paris proper and some of its immediate suburbs. That's roughly a circle of say 20 km diameter. The "suburban trains" we have around here (the RER and a buch of similar other lines with a different name) do not run as often, even during peak rush hour. But they also get filled to the brim with people, except on those travel time is more around 1h instead of 10 minutes, so you get to really enjoy getting pressed together. Bonus points for there being no ventilation whatsoever (and I mean ventilation, as in moving air, not specifically air conditioning, which of course, hasn't reached these parts).

mattlondon 6y ago

Same here in London on the tube - if you need to wait more than 5 minutes you know that you basically have zero chance getting on the train that does arrive because it will be literally full of people - not just no seats left, but every possible available bit of physical space will have someone contorted into it, and the doors will slide against someone's back/arms/face as they slide close. There are only 4 doors per carraige on most trains, which means physically getting people in an out when it is entirely full is difficult. I've often thought that a train with no seats would be great, or ones where the entire side of the carriage just lifts up or rolls-up like a roller shutter would be a great timesaver and make everyone's lives a lot easier

iggldiggl 6y ago

> So now that we have automatic trains with automated gates, they could have different kinds of trains for rush hour. I don't quite see what automation has to do with this, though? Granted, with fully automated operation it's a little easier to shuffle trains around without having to worry about how that impacts the rosters of the humans operating the trains, but the main problem here is that it'd be extremely inefficient to keep a completely duplicate set of trains (and more) around just for rush hour. At most, you could try building the extra trains that only run doing peak hours to a separate design, but that still makes maintenance more complicated and means that only a relatively small fraction of trains (I don't have numbers for Paris at hand, but on the Underground in London it'd be e.g. 20 - 25 % at most) will actually be of the "super high" capacity design. So in my opinion the only really sensible thing if you want to go down that path would be to do what I've seen with some Japanese lines, namely use foldable longitudinal seating that can be remotely locked in the upright position and then unlocked again after the peak. As for > and the train doors could open upwards. So instead of the people having to squish through small openings, they could get on and off through practically the whole length of the train I don't know, that'd seem at least a bit dubious in terms of structural integrity, wouldn't it?