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For a new project we've been looking at the ESP32 range - great functionality - but we're more than a little concerned about being reliant on a single company (

For a new project we've been looking at the ESP32 range - great functionality - but we're more than a little concerned about being reliant on a single company (Expressif) and manufacturer (TSMC). Are there other SoC solutions with multiple companies and manufacturers with similar functionality?

eaurouge 6y ago
Cortex-M. Lots of Bluetooth LE solutions. WiFi getting there - Nordic is working on a solution here as well.
- topbanana 6y ago
  I had a look a Nordic nrf5340 recently and second the recommendation, it's an impressive platform with Zephyr OS
- ksec 6y ago
  Are the tools and software from Nordic better?
  - audunw 6y ago
    Nordics tools and documentation are generally considered relatively high quality. Not perfect, but the competition is usually worse. That's one of the main reasons they are dominating the Bluetooth LE peripheral market.
  - floatboth 6y ago
    They're good, but you don't have to use them at all. You can use Rust instead! :)
  - robert_foss 6y ago
    The Nordic SDKs are my favorite embedded ones by far. It's so good relative to the competition, that I will go out of my way to use their chips.
- monkendrunky 5y ago
  u may get interested in InnoPhase Inc solution, ultra low power wifi solutions. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI1JfWpybywnPV_pkAGiGug https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI1JfWpybywnPV_pkAGiGug
mrlambchop 6y ago
Realtek RTL872X - it has 5Ghz!
neltnerb 6y ago
From what I've seen the Qualcomm chips are really great but impossible to buy if you're a normal human, the ST chips are pretty solid and have a configuration tool that works well in Linux and their -WB versions support wireless and bluetooth but use more power than the Qualcomm chips. Then there's microchip (owner of atmel) which has a wifi integrated chip, but it was really hard to get to work. ESP32 was also super easy to get to work, and I prefer it to the microchip series, see it as a budget version of the ST chips (uses a lot more power but that's fine if it's not on a power limit), and much easier to source than the chips that are meaningfully better. So yeah, plenty of vendors of equivalent functionality, just different ecosystems for the firmware, of course RISC-V isn't the same as ARM (which the older ESP32 used) so that introduces some quirks into the toolchain, and of course the vendors chips aren't pin-compatible. You're definitely making a new board if you swap the microcontroller because it's out of stock, that's nearly impossible to avoid -- your best hope is to pick a vendor with a good track record or just buy all your inventory up front, and if you're super lucky the vendor will sell different versions with the same footprint and basic design with different amounts of RAM and such with different availability so that you can swap chips based on supply chain stuff for short term issues. But a lot of these chips are still made by TSMC I'm sure, so I'm not sure it really addresses the root of how few companies are at the root of the supply chain.
- pta2002 6y ago
  AFAIK the older ESP chips used Xtensa, not ARM.
  - neltnerb 6y ago
    Thanks for the correction, when I was reading the datasheets to implement it somehow this distinction never came up. Compilers are pretty great! I hope it continues to not matter with RISC-V cores =)
- numpad0 6y ago
  I don’t understand why this is downvoted gray. “We’d like to dual source a Wi-Fi SoC product” — fine, just build two completely different hardware and software to go with, with matching aesthetics and features. There’s no way around it, there’s usually no pin-compatible alternatives in embedded like there are for Core i7 and Core i3. That only works in consumer PC.
londons_explore 6y ago
Just write your code with a decent seperation between your logic and vendor specific things. Then if expressif can't deliver, it won't be too much work to switch platforms, especially if you're switching to a more capable platform. Sure, you'll probably have to respin the PCB and spend a week of late nights porting software, but that's probably still comes out cheaper considering the low probability of expressif chips being unavailable.

eaurouge 6y ago

Cortex-M. Lots of Bluetooth LE solutions. WiFi getting there - Nordic is working on a solution here as well.

topbanana 6y ago
I had a look a Nordic nrf5340 recently and second the recommendation, it's an impressive platform with Zephyr OS
ksec 6y ago
Are the tools and software from Nordic better?
- audunw 6y ago
  Nordics tools and documentation are generally considered relatively high quality. Not perfect, but the competition is usually worse. That's one of the main reasons they are dominating the Bluetooth LE peripheral market.
- floatboth 6y ago
  They're good, but you don't have to use them at all. You can use Rust instead! :)
- robert_foss 6y ago
  The Nordic SDKs are my favorite embedded ones by far. It's so good relative to the competition, that I will go out of my way to use their chips.
monkendrunky 5y ago
u may get interested in InnoPhase Inc solution, ultra low power wifi solutions. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI1JfWpybywnPV_pkAGiGug https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI1JfWpybywnPV_pkAGiGug

mrlambchop 6y ago

Realtek RTL872X - it has 5Ghz!

neltnerb 6y ago

From what I've seen the Qualcomm chips are really great but impossible to buy if you're a normal human, the ST chips are pretty solid and have a configuration tool that works well in Linux and their -WB versions support wireless and bluetooth but use more power than the Qualcomm chips. Then there's microchip (owner of atmel) which has a wifi integrated chip, but it was really hard to get to work. ESP32 was also super easy to get to work, and I prefer it to the microchip series, see it as a budget version of the ST chips (uses a lot more power but that's fine if it's not on a power limit), and much easier to source than the chips that are meaningfully better. So yeah, plenty of vendors of equivalent functionality, just different ecosystems for the firmware, of course RISC-V isn't the same as ARM (which the older ESP32 used) so that introduces some quirks into the toolchain, and of course the vendors chips aren't pin-compatible. You're definitely making a new board if you swap the microcontroller because it's out of stock, that's nearly impossible to avoid -- your best hope is to pick a vendor with a good track record or just buy all your inventory up front, and if you're super lucky the vendor will sell different versions with the same footprint and basic design with different amounts of RAM and such with different availability so that you can swap chips based on supply chain stuff for short term issues. But a lot of these chips are still made by TSMC I'm sure, so I'm not sure it really addresses the root of how few companies are at the root of the supply chain.

pta2002 6y ago
AFAIK the older ESP chips used Xtensa, not ARM.
- neltnerb 6y ago
  Thanks for the correction, when I was reading the datasheets to implement it somehow this distinction never came up. Compilers are pretty great! I hope it continues to not matter with RISC-V cores =)
numpad0 6y ago
I don’t understand why this is downvoted gray. “We’d like to dual source a Wi-Fi SoC product” — fine, just build two completely different hardware and software to go with, with matching aesthetics and features. There’s no way around it, there’s usually no pin-compatible alternatives in embedded like there are for Core i7 and Core i3. That only works in consumer PC.

londons_explore 6y ago

Just write your code with a decent seperation between your logic and vendor specific things. Then if expressif can't deliver, it won't be too much work to switch platforms, especially if you're switching to a more capable platform. Sure, you'll probably have to respin the PCB and spend a week of late nights porting software, but that's probably still comes out cheaper considering the low probability of expressif chips being unavailable.