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If SARS-CoV-2 emerged due to the WIV's research activities, then it was potentially with the knowledge and funding of the American government, via the EcoHealth
by tripletao 6y ago
If SARS-CoV-2 emerged due to the WIV's research activities, then it was potentially with the knowledge and funding of the American government, via the EcoHealth Alliance. Racism is always stupid, but in this case it's particularly so.
This absolutely shouldn't be China vs. USA, and it's deeply unfortunate that the Trump administration's early, characteristically unsupported rhetoric made it so. The WIV's safety was probably below American standards, but probably closer than a wet market is to American agricultural standards. So it's ridiculous to think a lab vs. natural origin makes it "more China's fault". If the CCP is currently covering up a lab accident, then they're probably quite unhappy that they've been "forced" to do so, and wishing in retrospect they'd instead decided a year ago to publicly blame the rogue, American-funded researcher.
Long before the pandemic, this was an obscure academic debate, between virologists who wanted to perform certain risky experiments and others who thought they presented an unacceptable risk:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7097416/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7097416/
With the possibility (absolutely not proven; but not disproven either) that such an experiment has just killed 2.9M people, that debate takes on a terrible new significance.
- fighterpilot 6y agoAnti-Chinese racism is stupid and toxic, yes, but you're missing the point. People here generally aren't blaming China because that's where COVID-19 originated. That would be stupid. No, they're blaming the CCP for covering it up in the early days, which allowed it to spread and become the global pandemic which it became. Big difference. It's not China's fault that COVID originated there (lab leak or otherwise). It is their fault for covering up the scale of the problem and thereby helping it spread.
- tripletao 6y agoThe article is about the earliest origins of SARS-CoV-2, whether that arose from the activities of the WIV or naturally. My comment is as well. Once the pandemic emerged, the CCP's response was certainly terrible in many well-known ways (e.g., their attempt to suppress Yan Limeng's initial alarm, and the disappearance of multiple citizen journalists from Wuhan), though it's impossible to know whether a better response could have suppressed its worldwide spread. That's a separate question from those earliest origins, though.
- fighterpilot 6y agoAgreed that it's a separate question. I just don't think the anti-CCP sentiment is unjustified, though. Whether it was a lab leak is important but a misdirection. Their cover-up of the true scale of the problem (lab leak or not) made it hard for politicians in other countries to lock down quickly. It helped it spread intentionally to multiple countries and by then it was too late. If they were blasting their sirens early in 2021 instead of covering it up we might have had swifter border closures etc.
- tripletao 6y agoI don't think we disagree? There's plenty of reason to dislike the CCP, in relation to their handling of SARS-CoV-2 and otherwise. I just don't think SARS-CoV-2 originating in a WIV lab accident would add to that.
- fighterpilot 6y agoIt would add to it, because it would significantly increase the number of lies they told the rest of the world, given that they've been maintaining that it isn't a lab leak.
- chrischen 6y agoThe thing with covid was it caught everyone by surprise. It’s not like the US even caught on first. It devastated Italy before we even flinched, so that alone is evidence that, at least for the US response, we would have gone to shit no matter who warned us.
- fighterpilot 6y agoThe counterfactual is hard to reason about. SARS-1 was contained because international travel was restricted immediately after the first few cases. Once you seed multiple countries with it, competence matters for little.
- chrischen 6y agoLet’s be honest if Xi Jinping called up Trump and told him to shut down borders and instate mandatory curfews he’d have done the opposite.
- spacemanmatt 6y agoThe Trump white house was a superspreader
- NoImmatureAdHom 6y agoWe should also blame the CCP for screwing up containment. Chinese culture is still deeply corrupt in ways that prevent honest and open discussion of safety issues. Honest and open discussion of safety issues should be table stakes for facilities like that in Wuhan. The rest of the world should be pressuring China to not operate these sorts of high-risk enterprises.
- vagrantJin 6y agoHeh? Who is we? Who is pressuring the US to do anything? DPRC is a sovereign state and can do as they damn well please just like the US. Get off your high horse.
- NoImmatureAdHom 6y agoCountries pressure other countries to do or not do stuff all the time, no?
- vagrantJin 6y agoNo. They don't. I think my question was objectively straight forward too. who pressures the US to do anything? So either you're trolling me and pretending geopolitical hierachy doesn't exist or you may think my question is stupid. Either way...
- NoImmatureAdHom 6y agoI don't mean to troll. It just seems obvious to me that countries are pressuring other countries to do stuff all the time. Of course some countries have more power than others. Malawi isn't going to be able to lean on Poland in the same way the U.S. will be able to.
- pclmulqdq 6y agoBy the way, one of the big proponents of gain-of-function research was Anthony Fauci. It makes sense that he came out and tried to control the narrative around the virus given that he may have been responsible for its creation.