4 ms·

>At browser launch, Firefox will wait for uBO to be up and ready before network requests are fired from already opened tab(s). >This is not the case with Chrom

by Groxx 6y ago

>At browser launch, Firefox will wait for uBO to be up and ready before network requests are fired from already opened tab(s). >This is not the case with Chromium-based browsers, i.e. tracker/advertisement payloads may find their way into already opened tabs before uBO is up and ready in Chromium-based browsers, while these are properly filtered in Firefox. >Reliably blocking at browser launch is especially important for whoever uses default-deny mode for 3rd-party resources and/or JavaScript. Oof. TIL. That makes blockers kinda crippled in chromes, if you expect them to actually block things.

jillesvangurp 6y ago
Google has an obvious incentive to make life hard for ad blocking extension developers. Chrome and chromium exist because their business model is showing ads in it. That's the only reason it exists. Everything else it does is there only to convince users to use it and thus get exposed to ads and tracking. That includes performance work, UX work, etc. that Google puts a lot of time and money in. It makes Chrome really nice to use. Mozilla and Firefox exists because it's developers wanted to create the best browser possible. That's why it had extensions before Chrome was even a thing and that's why ad blocking extensions exist almost as long as extensions have been a thing. Adblock emerged somewhere around 2002 which was very soon after the first OSS releases by Mozilla reached the 1.0 stage. Also Phoenix, Firefox' ancestor became a thing around that time. Tabs and extensions were some of the early things that made that popular. Ad blocking always was the #1 use case for extensions. Ironically, that's why Chrome has extensions. The only reason it supports extensions is that not having that would have made it impossible to grab market share from Firefox (and Internet Explorer). Having support for both extensions and ad blocking were a hard requirement for Google despite its business model. But now that it is the dominant browser, that feature is no longer as important as it once was. So, Google has been slowly making it harder for extensions to interfere with their ads and tracking. They can't make it too hard or their market share will evaporate. But they don't have to be particularly good at it. And now that they have Android, they don't have to worry as much about losing market share. Android exists for the exact same reason. Chrome is losing relevance as a revenue stream as users consume more content on Android via "native" apps running in a virtual machine compiled against mandatory proprietary ad & tracking technology.
- MomoXenosaga 6y ago
  Reminds me of cable television: the TV shows exist to keep people watching the ads.
ehsankia 6y ago
Either I'm understanding it wrong or you're way overestimating this issue. Unless you close and open your browser between every single website you visit, this impact is probably negligible. Most people don't even close their browser windows ever between computer restarts.
- OJFord 6y ago
  And when you do restart, every single open tab will/might be able to load everything, unblocked and unfiltered, in the period between Chrome starting, and starting the extension.
  - skinkestek 6y ago
    Absolutely correct but I guess many innocent souls here will still think of it as a minor inconvenience, so let me explain: For some people it is not just about annoying ads; for those people paid or unpaid work (or something else, I'm not here to judge) takes them to sites where you'd rather not be surfing with js enabled. Remember: Client-side JS is a way for whoever controls the server side to execute code on your machine. Disabling JS instantly removes whole classes of nasty exploits.
  - ehsankia 6y ago
    I have used Chrome for years with uBlock and I have not once since a single ad go through during launch. So realistically this "window" is most likely negligible, which make sense given how efficient and fast uBlock is. Maybe if you're running on a potato. On the other hand, I don't want random extensions, which could be misbehaving or poorly coded, to be able to indefinitely delay the browser's launch, even if it comes at the cost of one ad making it through. Imagine having dozens of extensions and trying to figure out which one is slowing down your launch because there's a bug.
    - pingec 6y ago
      Try on youtube, it loads ads on chrome startup that ublock usually blocks.

by Groxx 6y ago

jillesvangurp 6y ago

Google has an obvious incentive to make life hard for ad blocking extension developers. Chrome and chromium exist because their business model is showing ads in it. That's the only reason it exists. Everything else it does is there only to convince users to use it and thus get exposed to ads and tracking. That includes performance work, UX work, etc. that Google puts a lot of time and money in. It makes Chrome really nice to use. Mozilla and Firefox exists because it's developers wanted to create the best browser possible. That's why it had extensions before Chrome was even a thing and that's why ad blocking extensions exist almost as long as extensions have been a thing. Adblock emerged somewhere around 2002 which was very soon after the first OSS releases by Mozilla reached the 1.0 stage. Also Phoenix, Firefox' ancestor became a thing around that time. Tabs and extensions were some of the early things that made that popular. Ad blocking always was the #1 use case for extensions. Ironically, that's why Chrome has extensions. The only reason it supports extensions is that not having that would have made it impossible to grab market share from Firefox (and Internet Explorer). Having support for both extensions and ad blocking were a hard requirement for Google despite its business model. But now that it is the dominant browser, that feature is no longer as important as it once was. So, Google has been slowly making it harder for extensions to interfere with their ads and tracking. They can't make it too hard or their market share will evaporate. But they don't have to be particularly good at it. And now that they have Android, they don't have to worry as much about losing market share. Android exists for the exact same reason. Chrome is losing relevance as a revenue stream as users consume more content on Android via "native" apps running in a virtual machine compiled against mandatory proprietary ad & tracking technology.

MomoXenosaga 6y ago
Reminds me of cable television: the TV shows exist to keep people watching the ads.

ehsankia 6y ago

Either I'm understanding it wrong or you're way overestimating this issue. Unless you close and open your browser between every single website you visit, this impact is probably negligible. Most people don't even close their browser windows ever between computer restarts.

OJFord 6y ago
And when you do restart, every single open tab will/might be able to load everything, unblocked and unfiltered, in the period between Chrome starting, and starting the extension.
- skinkestek 6y ago
  Absolutely correct but I guess many innocent souls here will still think of it as a minor inconvenience, so let me explain: For some people it is not just about annoying ads; for those people paid or unpaid work (or something else, I'm not here to judge) takes them to sites where you'd rather not be surfing with js enabled. Remember: Client-side JS is a way for whoever controls the server side to execute code on your machine. Disabling JS instantly removes whole classes of nasty exploits.
- ehsankia 6y ago
  I have used Chrome for years with uBlock and I have not once since a single ad go through during launch. So realistically this "window" is most likely negligible, which make sense given how efficient and fast uBlock is. Maybe if you're running on a potato. On the other hand, I don't want random extensions, which could be misbehaving or poorly coded, to be able to indefinitely delay the browser's launch, even if it comes at the cost of one ad making it through. Imagine having dozens of extensions and trying to figure out which one is slowing down your launch because there's a bug.
  - pingec 6y ago
    Try on youtube, it loads ads on chrome startup that ublock usually blocks.