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A condom is the perfect example. A condom is typically used once and has pores small enough to block designated particles. This is how medical masks in a medi

A condom is the perfect example. A condom is typically used once and has pores small enough to block designated particles. This is how medical masks in a medical establishment is used. Cloth masks at a community level are basically wearing the same condom everyday and the condom is full of holes. Its a 'rain dance', and just makes people feel better, which does have it's benefits, like religion or nationalism. That's why Fauci is saying to double or triple up on cloth masks, because cloth masks reused daily are minimally effective, which is what the vast majority of the population does. Here's a real actual scientific article about it. https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577 https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

aqme28 6y ago
That article doesn't support any kind of conclusion that masks are ineffective. It ranks the effectiveness of masks, but has no "maskless" group to compare against.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  "Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%." How do you test particle penetration in a 'maskless' group? Isn't it implied that the 'maskless' group would have 100% particle penetration?
  - mapme 6y ago
    Isn’t that direct evidence that medical masks work? Which doesn’t support your assertion that groups all masks together. Thus, your argument appears against cloth masks, not medical grade (surgical, n95). https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/5/4/e006577/F2.large.jpg https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/5/4/e006577/F2.large...
    - nickthemagicman 6y ago
      Yes absolutly. There is evidence that masks do work if combined with proper usage. The evidence shows that changing masks frequently combined with using medical grade material is effective. The current mask recommendations for the USA though... is folk science akin to using leeches or trepanation. And no one demands any scientific rigour they just follow along blindly trusting whoever is on the T.V.
      - mapme 6y ago
        I wish the US had gone harder on telling people to get quality masks. Personally I use only n95 from US manufacturers that have a tight seal around my face. I understand before that there were supply constraints, but also there are better fabrics than just cotton that are widely available such as chiffon, which block/filter a ton more than cotton and is widely available.
        nickthemagicman 6y ago
        Mask usage is still hugely important. Masks need to be changed constantly.
  - selimthegrim 6y ago
    Aerosols aren't particles.
bluefirebrand 6y ago
> Cloth masks at a community level are basically wearing the same condom everyday and the condom is full of holes. That's not an accurate comparison at all, and I think you have completely missed the point. Using a condom perfectly results in the fewest pregnancies. Using it typically (ie, once in a while you have one break or slip off) results in more pregnancies than perfect use, but still many less than unprotected sex. The same logic should hold for masks. Using them perfectly (ie single use, medical grade quality) results in the fewest infections. Using them typically (ie, non-medical grade cloth mask, wearing the same one more than once) results in more than the perfect use but still less than being unmasked. It is not a "rain dance" If you are trying to make an argument that wearing a mask makes you equally as likely to get infected as being unmasked, I don't know what to tell you. You're just straight up wrong. Edit - because you added your article link after I was already replying: you cannot generalize the usefulness of masks on healthcare workers who are typically very close to patients and breathing the same air as them, touching the same surfaces as them for extended periods of time to the usefulness to a community of people who are supposed to be sticking 6 feet apart. Yeah if you are standing a foot from a sick person wearing a mask and they cough in your eye, and you get sick, it's gonna seem like the mask did nothing.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  Using a condom that leaks repeatedly results in MORE pregnancies. Because the biological agent is never disposed of. And it keeps being applied over and over day after day. It's why you wouldn't want your surgeon to walk in to your operation with the mask he just used from the previous operation. It's also basic medical hygiene theory. The same reason that washing hands is effective because germs are transmissable via numerous vectors.
  - bluefirebrand 6y ago
    You're doing some serious mental gymnastics here. Yes, using things that are broken means they don't perform their intended function very effectively. That doesn't imply that using non-broken versions of those things is less effective somehow. That's not how the transitive property works. Edit - again because you're super edit happy. > It's why you wouldn't want your surgeon to walk in to your operation with the mask he just used from the previous operation No, ideally of course not. But given the choice between "surgeon wearing the old mask" and "surgeon wearing no mask at all" I think I prefer the old mask. Would you seriously just prefer the surgeon to breathe directly into whatever open cavity you have during the surgery?
quicklime 6y ago
Wearing a cloth mask in a community setting is like leaving your pants on while dry humping someone. It will reduce the chance of pregnancy :)
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  Except in this case your sperm can also get you pregnant and you wear the same ejaculate covered pants day after day that numerous other strangers have ejaculated on as well. And you put those ejaculate covered pants directly on your face.

aqme28 6y ago

That article doesn't support any kind of conclusion that masks are ineffective. It ranks the effectiveness of masks, but has no "maskless" group to compare against.

nickthemagicman 6y ago
"Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%." How do you test particle penetration in a 'maskless' group? Isn't it implied that the 'maskless' group would have 100% particle penetration?
- mapme 6y ago
  Isn’t that direct evidence that medical masks work? Which doesn’t support your assertion that groups all masks together. Thus, your argument appears against cloth masks, not medical grade (surgical, n95). https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/5/4/e006577/F2.large.jpg https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/5/4/e006577/F2.large...
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    Yes absolutly. There is evidence that masks do work if combined with proper usage. The evidence shows that changing masks frequently combined with using medical grade material is effective. The current mask recommendations for the USA though... is folk science akin to using leeches or trepanation. And no one demands any scientific rigour they just follow along blindly trusting whoever is on the T.V.
    - mapme 6y ago
      I wish the US had gone harder on telling people to get quality masks. Personally I use only n95 from US manufacturers that have a tight seal around my face. I understand before that there were supply constraints, but also there are better fabrics than just cotton that are widely available such as chiffon, which block/filter a ton more than cotton and is widely available.
      - nickthemagicman 6y ago
        Mask usage is still hugely important. Masks need to be changed constantly.
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  Aerosols aren't particles.

bluefirebrand 6y ago

> Cloth masks at a community level are basically wearing the same condom everyday and the condom is full of holes. That's not an accurate comparison at all, and I think you have completely missed the point. Using a condom perfectly results in the fewest pregnancies. Using it typically (ie, once in a while you have one break or slip off) results in more pregnancies than perfect use, but still many less than unprotected sex. The same logic should hold for masks. Using them perfectly (ie single use, medical grade quality) results in the fewest infections. Using them typically (ie, non-medical grade cloth mask, wearing the same one more than once) results in more than the perfect use but still less than being unmasked. It is not a "rain dance" If you are trying to make an argument that wearing a mask makes you equally as likely to get infected as being unmasked, I don't know what to tell you. You're just straight up wrong. Edit - because you added your article link after I was already replying: you cannot generalize the usefulness of masks on healthcare workers who are typically very close to patients and breathing the same air as them, touching the same surfaces as them for extended periods of time to the usefulness to a community of people who are supposed to be sticking 6 feet apart. Yeah if you are standing a foot from a sick person wearing a mask and they cough in your eye, and you get sick, it's gonna seem like the mask did nothing.

nickthemagicman 6y ago
Using a condom that leaks repeatedly results in MORE pregnancies. Because the biological agent is never disposed of. And it keeps being applied over and over day after day. It's why you wouldn't want your surgeon to walk in to your operation with the mask he just used from the previous operation. It's also basic medical hygiene theory. The same reason that washing hands is effective because germs are transmissable via numerous vectors.
- bluefirebrand 6y ago
  You're doing some serious mental gymnastics here. Yes, using things that are broken means they don't perform their intended function very effectively. That doesn't imply that using non-broken versions of those things is less effective somehow. That's not how the transitive property works. Edit - again because you're super edit happy. > It's why you wouldn't want your surgeon to walk in to your operation with the mask he just used from the previous operation No, ideally of course not. But given the choice between "surgeon wearing the old mask" and "surgeon wearing no mask at all" I think I prefer the old mask. Would you seriously just prefer the surgeon to breathe directly into whatever open cavity you have during the surgery?

quicklime 6y ago

Wearing a cloth mask in a community setting is like leaving your pants on while dry humping someone. It will reduce the chance of pregnancy :)

nickthemagicman 6y ago
Except in this case your sperm can also get you pregnant and you wear the same ejaculate covered pants day after day that numerous other strangers have ejaculated on as well. And you put those ejaculate covered pants directly on your face.