4 ms·

Why didn't they do the same for the SARS-CoV-1 leaks that happened in Beijing over a decade ago, then?

rebelos 6y ago
That's a terrible counterargument full of logical holes coming from someone who's supposedly a "PhD in virology". But you're also a green account that's so rabidly and suspiciously coming to China's defense throughout these comments that I literally assign no credence whatsoever to anything you've said. Several other scientists here have already eviscerated the arguments in your r/science post as well. I don't know who you are, but "unbiased virologist commenter" is definitely not it.
- jeduehr 6y ago
  Hey you can literally look up my name in the post I linked and find all the evidence in the world that I am who I say I am. https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did_not_come_from_the_wuhan_institute_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did... James Duehr, PhD Here's my google scholar page: https://scholar.google.com.co/citations?user=8wCwbNUAAAAJ&hl=en https://scholar.google.com.co/citations?user=8wCwbNUAAAAJ&hl... Here's my PhD thesis: https://search.proquest.com/openview/8e7e18ee1e41133ae74a719778b837d1/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y https://search.proquest.com/openview/8e7e18ee1e41133ae74a719... Sorry I'm a green account but I forgot the password to the HN account I made like 10 years ago. I mostly lurk so I haven't logged in in a looong time. Since before password managers became convenient or commonplace. Like 3 email addresses ago. I also wrote a pre-formed response to the criticism that I shouldn't be trusted in my original post, you can find it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did_not_come_from_the_wuhan_institute_of/fqpa9kn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did... and the associated in-depth footnote (For the really hardcore sticklers among you) here (#10): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vRbACWf90iBC35xNOwlI5bWcUq0nNzLc/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vRbACWf90iBC35xNOwlI5bWcUq0...
  - oh_sigh 6y ago
    I'm too ignorant of this field to form any opinion on it, but I'm curious how much you would wager with even odds that COVID-19 didn't originate from a virology lab? Not with me, because as I said I'm too ignorant of this field to form any opinion on it, but with some of the people who are pushing back against your posts.
    - jeduehr 6y ago
      I don't really have a lot of money (I'm 300k in debt from medical school and PhD school and undergrad combined) but sure... if Yuri Deigin or Alina Chan wagered with me, I would probably bet like.... idk $2,000 that it was a natural zoonotic event? Like I said I don't have a lot of money in my bank account. That would be about how much I spend out of my student loans for rent, food, utilities, bills, etc. in a given month. The problem with a wager like that is that we will probably /never/ be truly 100% sure either way. The thing I would push on, though, is that we would need to set forward exactly the criteria we would use to reassess our positions or give up the bet. I set out exactly what that criteria is for me in this last section of my original writeup: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did_not_come_from_the_wuhan_institute_of/fqpci3n/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did...
  - natch 6y ago
    That’s not how a standard of proof works. I’m more interested in knowing how you benefit by coming to China’s defense here. I’ll read your arguments. I mean, I did read the first one and it was a staggeringly ill-conceived straw man.
    - jeduehr 6y ago
      Hi I'm not "coming to China's defense" here. I am no fan of the Chinese government I literally find them horrifically oppressive and a place I would /never/ want to live. I am no fan of China. I also anticipated this exact criticism and wrote a whole response to it. See here (#4): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vRbACWf90iBC35xNOwlI5bWcUq0nNzLc/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vRbACWf90iBC35xNOwlI5bWcUq0...
- dang 6y ago
  You can't break the site guidelines like this regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. We ban accounts that do it, so please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
philliphaydon 6y ago
Is everyone forgetting china tried to sweep that under the rug initially?
- jeduehr 6y ago
  Source? As far as I know, the government may have tried, but the scientists themselves were not down with it. This sort of culture of the openness of science is why the Chinese government distrusts scientists inherently. And also why Shi Zhengli has maintained an extremely consistent story with the pandemic despite the government's changing its story like 3 times. Also why they've since silenced her. They don't trust their own citizens, and definitely not their own scientists.
  - philliphaydon 6y ago
    It's common knowledge that the CCP tried to cover up the SARS outbreak initially, and then later changed course. Just like they tried to fly under the radar with covid-19, the WHO changed the timeline last year admitting China never informed them. Then China tried to silence anyone who spoke out about it. It makes you wonder what would have happened if Taiwan never requested information from the WHO, effectively informing the WHO to begin with.

That's a terrible counterargument full of logical holes coming from someone who's supposedly a "PhD in virology". But you're also a green account that's so rabidly and suspiciously coming to China's defense throughout these comments that I literally assign no credence whatsoever to anything you've said. Several other scientists here have already eviscerated the arguments in your r/science post as well. I don't know who you are, but "unbiased virologist commenter" is definitely not it.

jeduehr 6y ago
Hey you can literally look up my name in the post I linked and find all the evidence in the world that I am who I say I am. https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did_not_come_from_the_wuhan_institute_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did... James Duehr, PhD Here's my google scholar page: https://scholar.google.com.co/citations?user=8wCwbNUAAAAJ&hl=en https://scholar.google.com.co/citations?user=8wCwbNUAAAAJ&hl... Here's my PhD thesis: https://search.proquest.com/openview/8e7e18ee1e41133ae74a719778b837d1/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y https://search.proquest.com/openview/8e7e18ee1e41133ae74a719... Sorry I'm a green account but I forgot the password to the HN account I made like 10 years ago. I mostly lurk so I haven't logged in in a looong time. Since before password managers became convenient or commonplace. Like 3 email addresses ago. I also wrote a pre-formed response to the criticism that I shouldn't be trusted in my original post, you can find it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did_not_come_from_the_wuhan_institute_of/fqpa9kn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did... and the associated in-depth footnote (For the really hardcore sticklers among you) here (#10): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vRbACWf90iBC35xNOwlI5bWcUq0nNzLc/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vRbACWf90iBC35xNOwlI5bWcUq0...
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  I'm too ignorant of this field to form any opinion on it, but I'm curious how much you would wager with even odds that COVID-19 didn't originate from a virology lab? Not with me, because as I said I'm too ignorant of this field to form any opinion on it, but with some of the people who are pushing back against your posts.
  - jeduehr 6y ago
    I don't really have a lot of money (I'm 300k in debt from medical school and PhD school and undergrad combined) but sure... if Yuri Deigin or Alina Chan wagered with me, I would probably bet like.... idk $2,000 that it was a natural zoonotic event? Like I said I don't have a lot of money in my bank account. That would be about how much I spend out of my student loans for rent, food, utilities, bills, etc. in a given month. The problem with a wager like that is that we will probably /never/ be truly 100% sure either way. The thing I would push on, though, is that we would need to set forward exactly the criteria we would use to reassess our positions or give up the bet. I set out exactly what that criteria is for me in this last section of my original writeup: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did_not_come_from_the_wuhan_institute_of/fqpci3n/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did...
- natch 6y ago
  That’s not how a standard of proof works. I’m more interested in knowing how you benefit by coming to China’s defense here. I’ll read your arguments. I mean, I did read the first one and it was a staggeringly ill-conceived straw man.
  - jeduehr 6y ago
    Hi I'm not "coming to China's defense" here. I am no fan of the Chinese government I literally find them horrifically oppressive and a place I would /never/ want to live. I am no fan of China. I also anticipated this exact criticism and wrote a whole response to it. See here (#4): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vRbACWf90iBC35xNOwlI5bWcUq0nNzLc/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vRbACWf90iBC35xNOwlI5bWcUq0...
dang 6y ago
You can't break the site guidelines like this regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. We ban accounts that do it, so please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

philliphaydon 6y ago

Is everyone forgetting china tried to sweep that under the rug initially?

jeduehr 6y ago
Source? As far as I know, the government may have tried, but the scientists themselves were not down with it. This sort of culture of the openness of science is why the Chinese government distrusts scientists inherently. And also why Shi Zhengli has maintained an extremely consistent story with the pandemic despite the government's changing its story like 3 times. Also why they've since silenced her. They don't trust their own citizens, and definitely not their own scientists.
- philliphaydon 6y ago
  It's common knowledge that the CCP tried to cover up the SARS outbreak initially, and then later changed course. Just like they tried to fly under the radar with covid-19, the WHO changed the timeline last year admitting China never informed them. Then China tried to silence anyone who spoke out about it. It makes you wonder what would have happened if Taiwan never requested information from the WHO, effectively informing the WHO to begin with.