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I think, based on the responses to your comment, that your comment is quite wrong. It seems X11 was completely functional at the time, which Wayland is definite

I think, based on the responses to your comment, that your comment is quite wrong. It seems X11 was completely functional at the time, which Wayland is definitely not at this time.

kaba0 6y ago
It’s not that hard to understand... Wayland is a protocol. If you have a few badly implemented browsers, is the web protocol bad? Also, it is questionable at best to state that Wayland compositors doesn’t work. Gnome is quite stable and with pipewire everything just works. Sway is similarly a stable software.
- umanwizard 6y ago
  In practice I do not care about the difference between wayland compositors and the wayland protocol. When I say “wayland sucks” what I mean is that every time I have tried any “wayland” desktop or WM, it has not worked for my workflow and has tons of bugs and missing features. I do not care whether this is because of the protocol or some other reason. Random example: in Sway, Chrome and all Electron apps have blurry text on displays with scaling other than 1.0. Every time I try “wayland” (or whatever term you would prefer I use), there is some show stopping bug like this. I feel like the conversations here usually go like this, with people just talking past each other: A: “X11 is going away, time to switch to Wayland!” B: “Okay, but last time I tried it, it didn’t work for me because <list of reasons>”. A: “No no no, you don’t understand, that’s not Wayland’s fault, it’s a compositor issue.” B: “Well, whatever the issue is, I’d like to keep using X.” A: “But X is going away! It’s deprecated!”
  - kaba0 6y ago
    > Random example: in Sway, Chrome and all Electron apps have blurry text on displays with scaling other than 1.0. That’s literally because of X. Both of them run by default in XWayland, but chrome do have wayland support already (but has to be enabled), and electron also have since being built on chrome, but most versions out there are not built with that version I believe. Also, noone says you SHOULD change. Feel free to use whatever you want. But saying wayland suck, when you didn’t even use goddamn wayland for evaluating it just “sucks”...
    - umanwizard 6y ago
      > That’s literally because of X I don’t care — that was the whole point of my comment. > Also, noone says you SHOULD change Yes they do! People are saying all the time that X is deprecated and going away, and we need to switch to Wayland. If other people want to use Wayland, it of course doesn’t bother me; I just hope it never becomes the standard and pushes out X, which works fine for me.
      - kaba0 6y ago
        > Yes they do! People are saying all the time that X is deprecated and going away, and we need to switch to Wayland. You can continue to run on eg. Linux 3.* if you so wish. And X is a stable software, it will continue to work reliably in the foreseeable future, even without active maintenance.
- craftinator 6y ago
  > It’s not that hard to understand... Wayland is a protocol. If you have a few badly implemented browsers, is the web protocol bad? Did you read the comment I was responding too? It had already conflated the two. However, in the spirit of not being petty, I ignored the conflation and decided to address the real issue, that implementations of Wayland are not stable after 12 years, while X was actually stable after about 8.

I think, based on the responses to your comment, that your comment is quite wrong. It seems X11 was completely functional at the time, which Wayland is definitely not at this time.

kaba0 6y ago

It’s not that hard to understand... Wayland is a protocol. If you have a few badly implemented browsers, is the web protocol bad? Also, it is questionable at best to state that Wayland compositors doesn’t work. Gnome is quite stable and with pipewire everything just works. Sway is similarly a stable software.

umanwizard 6y ago
In practice I do not care about the difference between wayland compositors and the wayland protocol. When I say “wayland sucks” what I mean is that every time I have tried any “wayland” desktop or WM, it has not worked for my workflow and has tons of bugs and missing features. I do not care whether this is because of the protocol or some other reason. Random example: in Sway, Chrome and all Electron apps have blurry text on displays with scaling other than 1.0. Every time I try “wayland” (or whatever term you would prefer I use), there is some show stopping bug like this. I feel like the conversations here usually go like this, with people just talking past each other: A: “X11 is going away, time to switch to Wayland!” B: “Okay, but last time I tried it, it didn’t work for me because <list of reasons>”. A: “No no no, you don’t understand, that’s not Wayland’s fault, it’s a compositor issue.” B: “Well, whatever the issue is, I’d like to keep using X.” A: “But X is going away! It’s deprecated!”
- kaba0 6y ago
  > Random example: in Sway, Chrome and all Electron apps have blurry text on displays with scaling other than 1.0. That’s literally because of X. Both of them run by default in XWayland, but chrome do have wayland support already (but has to be enabled), and electron also have since being built on chrome, but most versions out there are not built with that version I believe. Also, noone says you SHOULD change. Feel free to use whatever you want. But saying wayland suck, when you didn’t even use goddamn wayland for evaluating it just “sucks”...
  - umanwizard 6y ago
    > That’s literally because of X I don’t care — that was the whole point of my comment. > Also, noone says you SHOULD change Yes they do! People are saying all the time that X is deprecated and going away, and we need to switch to Wayland. If other people want to use Wayland, it of course doesn’t bother me; I just hope it never becomes the standard and pushes out X, which works fine for me.
    - kaba0 6y ago
      > Yes they do! People are saying all the time that X is deprecated and going away, and we need to switch to Wayland. You can continue to run on eg. Linux 3.* if you so wish. And X is a stable software, it will continue to work reliably in the foreseeable future, even without active maintenance.
craftinator 6y ago
> It’s not that hard to understand... Wayland is a protocol. If you have a few badly implemented browsers, is the web protocol bad? Did you read the comment I was responding too? It had already conflated the two. However, in the spirit of not being petty, I ignored the conflation and decided to address the real issue, that implementations of Wayland are not stable after 12 years, while X was actually stable after about 8.