5 ms·

This is pretty much the same insurance that full-time SWEs at Microsoft receive at Redmond HQ (well, one of the two options, with the other one being tied to Ka

This is pretty much the same insurance that full-time SWEs at Microsoft receive at Redmond HQ (well, one of the two options, with the other one being tied to Kaiser specifically, but most people I know take the one that's similar to yours). 100% of the first $1.5k, 10% until you hit the total of $3k, and then everything is free. $0 monthly premium as well. That's the one I have myself at the moment. Glad to see someone like you list the real numbers, because I keep hearing "good insurance" when it comes to Amazon warehouses, but this is the first time I saw someone actually point out the specifics. Also glad to hear that Amazon warehouse workers receive health benefits on par with full-time SWEs (not being sarcastic here, I genuinely am happy to hear this is the case).

slimsag 6y ago
(you didn't say this, but) nobody here should fool themselves into thinking a $3k deductible insurance is equal between an Amazon warehouse employee and a SWE at Microsoft. $3k for a Microsoft SWE is a "dang, I wish I didn't have to go to the hospital" situation. $3k for an Amazon warehouse employee earning $15/hr can often be a "there go my savings, I wonder if I got this injury due to the amount of physical activity my job requires" situation.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  The benefit is the same, and it's far more lavish than any other $15 job offers. Employers paying for 100% of the health insurance premiums are rare.
  - astrange 6y ago
    Microsoft's healthcare plan used to pay 100% of premiums, but over time it either became unaffordable or didn't work with the ACA. Currently it's something like "we charge you a lot for the first few months but also give you the money to pay it in your HSA", which makes you wonder why they give it to you in the first place. It's not like you can optimize your prescriptions out of your life, so it's not enabling choice.
    - Consultant32452 6y ago
      I don't have any prescriptions or chronic health issues. My HSA is another several thousand dollars per year of tax free retirement savings (I max out 401k contributions also). Sure, I can only ever use that $ on healthcare, but when I'm older I'm sure I'll use it.
      - astrange 6y ago
        Sure, but that doesn't explain why employers contribute extra to the HSA instead of having salary deductions. Btw, once you're 65 you can withdraw money for no reason without a penalty, so it's no worse than a traditional IRA. Too bad deposits are taxed in California.
- filoleg 6y ago
  I see your point, but to be fair, it is 10% after the first $1.5k. And it is already a much better insurance than most people working in offices I know get. Essentially, what it means is that if an employee spends less than $1.5k/yr on medical expenses, they don't gain much benefit. If they spend over $1.5k, they essentially only spend 10% after that on all of their medical expenses. And once they hit a hard cap at $3k, they spend nothing at all. 90% off for most medical stuff is a great rate. Not even mentioning the fact that this kind of an insurance is a godsend to people with major health problems, given that in the worst possible scenario, they would only ever spend $3k of their own money in a calendar year on medical stuff. And that's only if their actual pre-insurance-cost expenses are closer to the $16.5k, because $1.5k + $1.5k/0.1 = $16.5k. And I am yet to see a better insurance out of any employers (not just warehouse employers). Even the "amazing" student insurance I had back in college (which I had to pay the premium for) was much worse than this.
  - boring_twenties 6y ago
    > Essentially, what it means is that if an employee spends less than $1.5k/yr on medical expenses, they don't gain much benefit. Nitpicking here, but they probably do, because the insurance-negotiated prices for many services are much better than the prices prices you could negotiate yourself -- and that is assuming you even have the skills and energy to do any negotiating. I have a high-deductible plan, which on paper covers literally nothing until I hit something over $7k/yr in expenses, which I thankfully never have. However, I usually pay 30-60% less than the uninsured cash price for my appointments and procedures just because I'm on the plan in the first place. I often (not always) check this with the provider, so it's not like I'm just blindly assuming the discount claimed by the insurance company is accurate. It's usually not, but the discount still seems to be substantial. In exactly one case I ended up saving like 50 bucks per dermatologist appointment by paying them directly.
    - AviationAtom 6y ago
      HDHPs are the reason for HSAs becoming a thing. I don't think most realize that the Amazon health plan mentioned is a pretty good deal. Most people only look at wage, failing to take into account what benefits are worth. In the US health benefits can account for a huge portion of overall compensation.
- dlp211 6y ago
  They also left out the point where Microsoft gives you $1250/$2500 in your HSA to help alleviate those deductible costs (if you choose to).
- DougN7 6y ago
  It’s not all equal, but I’m looking at my $7K deductible with a $1.2K/month premium (ACA Marketplace plan) and I’m thinking that plan looks like gold.
  - boring_twenties 6y ago
    Jesus, I hope that's at least for a family of 4 or something? I'm 38 and also have a $7k+ deductible (my plan is HDHP), costs me $275/mo.
    - DougN7 6y ago
      It’s for two people over 50 with no aid from the gov’t for the premium (which means we’re in good shape financially). The “Affordable” in the ACA is not for everyone.
      - bzbarsky 6y ago
        ACA plan costs go up pretty steeply with age, from what I've seen.
  - keypusher 6y ago
    You may want to look at your options on the ACA marketplace again. The recent stimulus bill included significantly more subsidies for ACA plans and enrollment is reopened for the next few months.
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  That's still a remarkably good health plan being offered unless somehow people are expecting Amazon and other corporations to offer their warehouse workers a better health plan than they or Microsoft offer their own engineering staff. Even a union isn't going to get them that.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
brsiegel 6y ago
Well not quite, because Microsoft also contributes $1k to an HSA as part of the plan every year. That said, having to pay up to $3k a year in medical costs when you're earning a Microsoft salary is a much smaller percent of your income than having the pay the same making $15/hr at an Amazon warehouse.
- filoleg 6y ago
  HSA is a separate thing that I don't even personally touch, I was talking about insurance itself. And I agree with your point, that type of an insurance with a fixed cut-off is regressive in a similar way that a sales tax it. So please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that Amazon warehouse workers have it just as good as Microsoft SWEs in terms of benefits (or just in general). They do, however, have the type of health benefits/insurance that is extremely difficult to beat by literally anyone except what other big tech companies provide to their SWEs. And afaik those benefits for Amazon warehouse workers kick-in on day 1, unlike what it's like at many other similar warehouse jobs.
  - boring_twenties 6y ago
    Are you sure you're not confusing HSA with FSA? The latter should absolutely be avoided, but an HSA is basically just another tax-advantaged retirement account along the lines of an IRA.
    - filoleg 6y ago
      I am not confusing HSA and FSA, but my wording was likely confusing. When I said "i don't personally touch it", I didn't mean that I avoid it. I just know that it is a part of my benefit package, i get contributions in there, but that's about it. I don't even look at it or interact with it in any way otherwise, because I am not planning to use it until much later in life.
      - boring_twenties 6y ago
        Ah yes, sounds like you're doing it right, my apologies :)
macintux 6y ago
How much easier is it to keep a job, and thus your health insurance, as a SWE when your body breaks down?
- filoleg 6y ago
  >How much easier is it to keep a job, and thus your health insurance, as a SWE when your body breaks down? Probably much easier than it would be for a warehouse worker. Though I have no idea how this is relevant to what was said in the message you were replying to.
  - macintux 6y ago
    I'm just pointing out that while it's great that they get pretty decent health insurance, it's a poor substitute for a societal safety net. And for a union that makes sure they're not chewed up and spit out.

slimsag 6y ago

(you didn't say this, but) nobody here should fool themselves into thinking a $3k deductible insurance is equal between an Amazon warehouse employee and a SWE at Microsoft. $3k for a Microsoft SWE is a "dang, I wish I didn't have to go to the hospital" situation. $3k for an Amazon warehouse employee earning $15/hr can often be a "there go my savings, I wonder if I got this injury due to the amount of physical activity my job requires" situation.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
The benefit is the same, and it's far more lavish than any other $15 job offers. Employers paying for 100% of the health insurance premiums are rare.
- astrange 6y ago
  Microsoft's healthcare plan used to pay 100% of premiums, but over time it either became unaffordable or didn't work with the ACA. Currently it's something like "we charge you a lot for the first few months but also give you the money to pay it in your HSA", which makes you wonder why they give it to you in the first place. It's not like you can optimize your prescriptions out of your life, so it's not enabling choice.
  - Consultant32452 6y ago
    I don't have any prescriptions or chronic health issues. My HSA is another several thousand dollars per year of tax free retirement savings (I max out 401k contributions also). Sure, I can only ever use that $ on healthcare, but when I'm older I'm sure I'll use it.
    - astrange 6y ago
      Sure, but that doesn't explain why employers contribute extra to the HSA instead of having salary deductions. Btw, once you're 65 you can withdraw money for no reason without a penalty, so it's no worse than a traditional IRA. Too bad deposits are taxed in California.
filoleg 6y ago
I see your point, but to be fair, it is 10% after the first $1.5k. And it is already a much better insurance than most people working in offices I know get. Essentially, what it means is that if an employee spends less than $1.5k/yr on medical expenses, they don't gain much benefit. If they spend over $1.5k, they essentially only spend 10% after that on all of their medical expenses. And once they hit a hard cap at $3k, they spend nothing at all. 90% off for most medical stuff is a great rate. Not even mentioning the fact that this kind of an insurance is a godsend to people with major health problems, given that in the worst possible scenario, they would only ever spend $3k of their own money in a calendar year on medical stuff. And that's only if their actual pre-insurance-cost expenses are closer to the $16.5k, because $1.5k + $1.5k/0.1 = $16.5k. And I am yet to see a better insurance out of any employers (not just warehouse employers). Even the "amazing" student insurance I had back in college (which I had to pay the premium for) was much worse than this.
- boring_twenties 6y ago
  > Essentially, what it means is that if an employee spends less than $1.5k/yr on medical expenses, they don't gain much benefit. Nitpicking here, but they probably do, because the insurance-negotiated prices for many services are much better than the prices prices you could negotiate yourself -- and that is assuming you even have the skills and energy to do any negotiating. I have a high-deductible plan, which on paper covers literally nothing until I hit something over $7k/yr in expenses, which I thankfully never have. However, I usually pay 30-60% less than the uninsured cash price for my appointments and procedures just because I'm on the plan in the first place. I often (not always) check this with the provider, so it's not like I'm just blindly assuming the discount claimed by the insurance company is accurate. It's usually not, but the discount still seems to be substantial. In exactly one case I ended up saving like 50 bucks per dermatologist appointment by paying them directly.
  - AviationAtom 6y ago
    HDHPs are the reason for HSAs becoming a thing. I don't think most realize that the Amazon health plan mentioned is a pretty good deal. Most people only look at wage, failing to take into account what benefits are worth. In the US health benefits can account for a huge portion of overall compensation.
dlp211 6y ago
They also left out the point where Microsoft gives you $1250/$2500 in your HSA to help alleviate those deductible costs (if you choose to).
DougN7 6y ago
It’s not all equal, but I’m looking at my $7K deductible with a $1.2K/month premium (ACA Marketplace plan) and I’m thinking that plan looks like gold.
- boring_twenties 6y ago
  Jesus, I hope that's at least for a family of 4 or something? I'm 38 and also have a $7k+ deductible (my plan is HDHP), costs me $275/mo.
  - DougN7 6y ago
    It’s for two people over 50 with no aid from the gov’t for the premium (which means we’re in good shape financially). The “Affordable” in the ACA is not for everyone.
    - bzbarsky 6y ago
      ACA plan costs go up pretty steeply with age, from what I've seen.
- keypusher 6y ago
  You may want to look at your options on the ACA marketplace again. The recent stimulus bill included significantly more subsidies for ACA plans and enrollment is reopened for the next few months.
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
That's still a remarkably good health plan being offered unless somehow people are expecting Amazon and other corporations to offer their warehouse workers a better health plan than they or Microsoft offer their own engineering staff. Even a union isn't going to get them that.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

brsiegel 6y ago

Well not quite, because Microsoft also contributes $1k to an HSA as part of the plan every year. That said, having to pay up to $3k a year in medical costs when you're earning a Microsoft salary is a much smaller percent of your income than having the pay the same making $15/hr at an Amazon warehouse.

filoleg 6y ago
HSA is a separate thing that I don't even personally touch, I was talking about insurance itself. And I agree with your point, that type of an insurance with a fixed cut-off is regressive in a similar way that a sales tax it. So please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that Amazon warehouse workers have it just as good as Microsoft SWEs in terms of benefits (or just in general). They do, however, have the type of health benefits/insurance that is extremely difficult to beat by literally anyone except what other big tech companies provide to their SWEs. And afaik those benefits for Amazon warehouse workers kick-in on day 1, unlike what it's like at many other similar warehouse jobs.
- boring_twenties 6y ago
  Are you sure you're not confusing HSA with FSA? The latter should absolutely be avoided, but an HSA is basically just another tax-advantaged retirement account along the lines of an IRA.
  - filoleg 6y ago
    I am not confusing HSA and FSA, but my wording was likely confusing. When I said "i don't personally touch it", I didn't mean that I avoid it. I just know that it is a part of my benefit package, i get contributions in there, but that's about it. I don't even look at it or interact with it in any way otherwise, because I am not planning to use it until much later in life.
    - boring_twenties 6y ago
      Ah yes, sounds like you're doing it right, my apologies :)

macintux 6y ago

How much easier is it to keep a job, and thus your health insurance, as a SWE when your body breaks down?

filoleg 6y ago
>How much easier is it to keep a job, and thus your health insurance, as a SWE when your body breaks down? Probably much easier than it would be for a warehouse worker. Though I have no idea how this is relevant to what was said in the message you were replying to.
- macintux 6y ago
  I'm just pointing out that while it's great that they get pretty decent health insurance, it's a poor substitute for a societal safety net. And for a union that makes sure they're not chewed up and spit out.