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The problem is that links provide a very reliable way to perform a controlled HTTP request to get a dynamic response from the backend.... without using JavaScri

The problem is that links provide a very reliable way to perform a controlled HTTP request to get a dynamic response from the backend.... without using JavaScript. I love JavaScript, but if device reusability is a serious concern then JavaScript is the elephant in the room, not this topic. Is it available? What version is supported? What quirks does the engine have? To be fair... it was posted in 2013 :D. The only working alternative (editing if I stand corrected!) using buttons is to make them form buttons. Now otherwise intuitive behaviors (e.g. forward/back, refresh) are laden with "you're about to resend data!" warnings that completely break the flow. To me, it makes perfect sense why this trend evolved. Most people agree with the underlying premise about user expectation on button vs link. Dressing links up as button is a direct response to that. I understand the technical arguments, but users care what it looks like and how it behaves, not how you implemented it. Edits: - Yes, you can use <form method="get"...> without scary browser warnings. It just gets a but ugly if you have lots of buttons, as each needs its own form wrapper. - 303 redirects to POST request are a handy pattern to be aware of no matter what :)

nathcd 6y ago
> The only working alternative (editing if I stand corrected!) using buttons is to make them form buttons. Now otherwise intuitive behaviors (e.g. forward/back, refresh) are laden with "you're about to resend data!" warnings that completely break the flow. If anyone is looking for a solution to this, you can respond to a POST with a 303 (See Other) redirect. There's even a Wikipedia page for this pattern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post/Redirect/Get https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post/Redirect/Get
Groxx 6y ago
<form action="whatever" method="get"> or has that not been around for long? I haven't found anything stating when it first arrived.
- tesseract 6y ago
  Since HTML 2.0 at least. Before that I think the method was specified as part of the action attribute.
- jdfellow 6y ago
  Given that the default method is get, and you have to set method=post for otherwise, I'd suspect it's been around longer than method=post.
Kwpolska 6y ago
> The only working alternative (editing if I stand corrected!) using buttons is to make them form buttons. Now otherwise intuitive behaviors (e.g. forward/back, refresh) are laden with "you're about to resend data!" warnings that completely break the flow. You can make a form with method="GET" that doesn’t do this, works the same way a link would, and can send form data.
mr-wendel 6y ago
Can't edit now, so also adding this: you can't nest forms which may unnecessarily complicate some layouts
- Conlectus 6y ago
  Noting that you can use form="my-id" to have the fields outside the form tag, though that might be the complications you mentioned.
  - GordonS 6y ago
    Never ceases to amaze me that I've been using HTML for more than 25 years, and every now and then I still learn a new nugget this and wonder how I could have not known!
crazygringo 6y ago
And that doesn't even get into CSS styling. You know a link starts with the exact same height and font that surrounds it, and then you can style it to predictably know exactly what you'll get. A button shows up in a new font -- a font of unknown size at that, because it utterly ignores the font size of its container -- with extra height that introduces line-spacing issues -- and all of this by totally unpredictable amounts because it varies radically across both browser and platform. And if you want to undo all that styling, have fun delving into the quirks of each browser of how to do so. If you're building something simple where appearance really doesn't matter, then sure throw in a button. But if you actually want to have predictable results, then the only straightforward way is with a link you style.
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  Buttons shouldn't be in the middle of a sentence or paragraph, so not sure how this applies.
  - IggleSniggle 6y ago
    Take a look at the HN voting buttons. Or, better yet, the expand/collapse button for each comment thread. They are implemented as links, not buttons. Presumably, this makes it easier to align with the text that they are within.
    - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
      HN isn’t a great example here, it’s still one of the last sites still using tables for layout.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - rendall 6y ago
    According to whom?
- minitech 6y ago
cryptonector 6y ago
It would be really nice to have a button that doesn't navigate away and doesn't require JS.
thitcanh 6y ago
You’re missing the point of the article entirely. The author argues to NOT use fake anchor tags like <a href="#"> and then add functionality to it via JavaScript. Instead you should use <button type="button">. Either way, JavaScript is required. What you’re suggesting means your link is actually a link to another page, which works without JavaScript and that’s not the point of the article.

nathcd 6y ago

> The only working alternative (editing if I stand corrected!) using buttons is to make them form buttons. Now otherwise intuitive behaviors (e.g. forward/back, refresh) are laden with "you're about to resend data!" warnings that completely break the flow. If anyone is looking for a solution to this, you can respond to a POST with a 303 (See Other) redirect. There's even a Wikipedia page for this pattern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post/Redirect/Get https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post/Redirect/Get

Groxx 6y ago

<form action="whatever" method="get"> or has that not been around for long? I haven't found anything stating when it first arrived.

tesseract 6y ago
Since HTML 2.0 at least. Before that I think the method was specified as part of the action attribute.
jdfellow 6y ago
Given that the default method is get, and you have to set method=post for otherwise, I'd suspect it's been around longer than method=post.

Kwpolska 6y ago

> The only working alternative (editing if I stand corrected!) using buttons is to make them form buttons. Now otherwise intuitive behaviors (e.g. forward/back, refresh) are laden with "you're about to resend data!" warnings that completely break the flow. You can make a form with method="GET" that doesn’t do this, works the same way a link would, and can send form data.

mr-wendel 6y ago

Can't edit now, so also adding this: you can't nest forms which may unnecessarily complicate some layouts

Conlectus 6y ago
Noting that you can use form="my-id" to have the fields outside the form tag, though that might be the complications you mentioned.
- GordonS 6y ago
  Never ceases to amaze me that I've been using HTML for more than 25 years, and every now and then I still learn a new nugget this and wonder how I could have not known!

crazygringo 6y ago

And that doesn't even get into CSS styling. You know a link starts with the exact same height and font that surrounds it, and then you can style it to predictably know exactly what you'll get. A button shows up in a new font -- a font of unknown size at that, because it utterly ignores the font size of its container -- with extra height that introduces line-spacing issues -- and all of this by totally unpredictable amounts because it varies radically across both browser and platform. And if you want to undo all that styling, have fun delving into the quirks of each browser of how to do so. If you're building something simple where appearance really doesn't matter, then sure throw in a button. But if you actually want to have predictable results, then the only straightforward way is with a link you style.

mixmastamyk 6y ago
Buttons shouldn't be in the middle of a sentence or paragraph, so not sure how this applies.
- IggleSniggle 6y ago
  Take a look at the HN voting buttons. Or, better yet, the expand/collapse button for each comment thread. They are implemented as links, not buttons. Presumably, this makes it easier to align with the text that they are within.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
    HN isn’t a great example here, it’s still one of the last sites still using tables for layout.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rendall 6y ago
  According to whom?
minitech 6y ago

cryptonector 6y ago

It would be really nice to have a button that doesn't navigate away and doesn't require JS.

thitcanh 6y ago

You’re missing the point of the article entirely. The author argues to NOT use fake anchor tags like <a href="#"> and then add functionality to it via JavaScript. Instead you should use <button type="button">. Either way, JavaScript is required. What you’re suggesting means your link is actually a link to another page, which works without JavaScript and that’s not the point of the article.