7 ms·

The warehouse workers get the same (extremely generous) healthcare as every other Amazon employee (due to ERISA). And even if they didn't, through the Affordab

• starlust2 6y ago
  Neither of the options you listed is free.
  • bhupy 6y ago
    Sure, and healthcare isn't "literally free" in loads of high standard of living first world countries. In France, for example, there's a 20% coinsurance that's paid on all treatments. With a few exceptions, most single payer countries have co-pays. Amazon's plans can be found here: https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/benefitsoverview-us https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/benefitsoverview-us These plans are extended to every single Amazon employee, including the warehouse workers. Most of the warehouse workers we're talking about would probably choose the Kaiser HMO that has $0 deductible and 100% coverage; all they would pay is $30 co-pay. This is more or less how the single payer healthcare works in Australia, for example.
    • dangoor 6y ago
      > Most of the warehouse workers we're talking about would probably choose the Kaiser HMO that has $0 deductible and 100% coverage; No. We're talking about workers in Alabama, and Kaiser is listed on that very page as regional: Kaiser Permanente HMO (California, Colorado, D.C., Maryland, Virginia, Washington) I'm assuming Amazon charges employees some portion of the insurance premium, as most employers do? Also, there's this: > Amazon’s benefits can vary by location, the number of regularly scheduled hours you work, length of employment, and job status such as seasonal or temporary employment.
      • bhupy 6y ago
        Kaiser operates in Alabama too, just FYI. You're correct that there's regional variation, but that's mostly a function of the medical networks. For instance, UHC's network may have more coverage in the Northeast than Blue Cross Blue Shield (or vice versa). Ultimately, as full-time employees, Amazon's warehouse workers are entitled to the exact same health insurance as their white collar counterparts sitting in the offices, and they offer extremely above average Cadillac health insurance.
        • dangoor 6y ago
          > Kaiser operates in Alabama too, just FYI I didn't think so. My company offers us Kaiser as an option as well, but only for folks in states where Kaiser operates (I'm in Michigan). I thought one of the distinctive features of Kaiser is that they offer insurance _and_ have their own clinics. Regardless, the point of Amazon offering quality healthcare plans to the warehouse workers is still great to hear!
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
• smithza 6y ago
  Also, population for the city is near 25k. A small fraction of those folks enjoy the benefits of this healthcare given by working for Amazon. Furthermore, it is a bad historical precedent to rely on employers for healthcare. This was a poor side-effect of the wage-hike stoppages during WWII that was later tax-exempted through federal law. It was never well thought out. Finally, how many people in this town feel they have equal opportunity for social mobility? Decades of economic stagnation and degradation have thrown any plausible arguments towards a "meritocracy/American dream/everyone has an equal chance at success" out the window.
• Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
  Wtf? I need more information about that health care plan. Last time I looked at the market I was looking at worse premiums, coverage, and limits and making garbage pay. My plan is $500/mo from me and $1500 from my employer with, iirc, 8000 max oop Edit: I reviewed the plans they offer. Mine is significantly better, excluding the max oop. Anyone know what the costs are for for the plans?
  • resto49 6y ago
    From past experience at Amazon, it’s anywhere from $20 to $80 per month for individual coverage. I honestly have trouble believing yours is “significantly better”. One of the Amazon plans is a $300/year deductible with $2,300/year oop, and costs $80/month, and Amazon contributes $500/year towards your HRA. Another plan has no deductible, and $1,500/year oop. Those are some of the best healthcare insurance plans I’ve ever seen in the US, period. I’d believe it if yours was about the same, but it’s pretty difficult to be “significantly better” than those.
    • Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
      Between less/no copays and specific services my employer covers directly my plan is significantly better for me and my circumstances. My previous employer had virtually identical coverage with higher oop and monthly payment. Just a perk of being in a strong union I guess. E: I'd love to see the official coverage breakdown offers with prices if anyone has them please share, email in profile if you don't want to share publicly.
  • pxx 6y ago
    This is incredibly expensive compared to the Amazon plan. You understand that you are paying more in premiums than the premium _plus_ out-of-pocket maximums of these plans, right? A quick Google search gives https://www.premera.com/documents/042884.pdf https://www.premera.com/documents/042884.pdf which indicates $31 per month (or $14.31 per biweekly pay period), which is $372 per _year_, plus Amazon refunds $500 into your HSA. There is no way your plan could be better for you, regardless of your circumstances. You start off more than $6000 in the hole compared to the Amazon plan.
• foepys 6y ago
  Do they get free university with an interest free loan of which they only have to pay 50% and only up to 10,000€ back? And 20+ days vacation days plus 6 weeks paid sick leave plus 18 months job guarantee in case of a longer healing process while being paid 60% of their last wage? Plus 1-2 years unemployment benefits, also at 60% of last wage? Plus 60% paid for up to a year in case of being on furlough during a pandemic? Plus parental leave of 12+2 months at 67% of last wage? Plus full health care regardless of being employed? Plus no deductibles, limits, or copay for any health issue? Talking about Germany here by the way.
  • splitstud 6y ago
    I'll take the lower tax rate, thanks
  • ekianjo 6y ago
    > Talking about Germany here by the way. Talking about the wealthiest country in Europe. I'm glad you are not cherry picking your data when you expose facts.
    • foepys 6y ago
      This is in comparison to the US as this whole thread is about the US. Unless you mean that the US is in fact not a wealthy country if you are looking at above facts. Then that's something that could be argued.
      • bhupy 6y ago
        No, this whole thread is about Alabama. The US is almost exactly as diverse as the EU (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_Human_Development_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr...). Alabama is more comparable to Estonia than it is to Germany. If you want to compare apples to apples, there are States in the US where citizens pay higher taxes and get benefits like free university: https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/08/pf/college/new-york-free-tuition/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/08/pf/college/new-york-free-tu...
• whoknew1122 6y ago
  You're conflating FAFSA and Pell Grants. FAFSA is an application for student aid. Pell Grants are the federal government grants given to low-income students. The lifetime limit for Pell Grants is $6,3465. As a low-income student, you may also be eligible for Stafford loans, which are federal subsidized loans. Subsidized meaning that the government pays for any interest accrued while you're a part time student, in your six-month post-graduation grace period, or other deferred status. The estimated cost of attendance at one of the closest public universities, the University of Alabama at Birmingham, has a yearly estimated cost of attendance of $28,695 for in-state students. University isn't 'basically free' for low income students. My parents lived below the poverty line their entire lives. I graduated with my bachelor's degree and $80k worth of loan debt. Sure low-income students might be eligible for needs-based grants and scholarships offered at their college. But federal support for low-income students is pitiful and college for those students is a far cry from free.
  • resto49 6y ago
    What you’re talking about is highly variable based on college choice and location. Federally, the student aid situation isn’t great, but there are many universities that will fully cover all tuition (and sometimes more) if you are under a certain income threshold. See: University of Texas. You’re also narrowly scoping this to talking about one of the largest and fanciest universities in the state. Meanwhile, there are plenty of other colleges in the area that cost fractions of Bama. And of note, Amazon actually pays for up to 95% of tuition/fees for warehouse workers who choose to pursue associates degrees. There are certainly societal problems in the US regarding education costs and healthcare, but these are both areas where Amazon is actually providing for its workers way, way above what the federal government provides, and even way above what is normal for most Americans (the health insurance that Amazon warehouse workers get is likely better than the health insurance of most of the people posting in this thread). This is the kind of stuff that needs to be kept in mind to understand why Bessemer residents don’t all see Amazon as evil.
    • whoknew1122 6y ago
      >"but there are many universities that will fully cover all tuition (and sometimes more) if you are under a certain income threshold. See: University of Texas." The University of Texas's program is: 1.) Recent 2.) Covers students enrolled at the time the program went into affect. It doesn't cover recently-graduated students. 3.) Only covers Texas residents (meaning it's irrelevant to a conversation about Amazon employees in Alabama) 4.) Only covers tuition, not cost of living. Cost of living, of course, is more than half of total cost of attendance at the University of Texas. Go ahead. Ask me how I know what it's like to be a low-income student at the University of Texas. > "You’re also narrowly scoping this to talking about one of the largest and fanciest universities in the state." I scoped it to one of two public universities near Bessemer, Alabama. UAB isn't the flagship campus, the University of Alabama at Tuscaloosa. By the way, the other public university near Bessemer is the University of Montevallo. It has a cost of attendance of 27,845 per year for in-state students. > "And of note, Amazon actually pays for up to 95% of tuition/fees for warehouse workers who choose to pursue associates degrees." Is that generous? Yeah. To some extent. But keep in mind the following: 1.) It only applies to associates degrees. 2.) The yearly payout is $3,000 (for full-time employees, half that for part time) 3.) You have to have worked for a year to be eligible 4.) Amazon only covers certain degrees You also have to continue working a demanding job with irregular hours. It's not nothing, I agree. But I've worked other non-skilled jobs with much more generous tuition reimbursement packages (including, but not limited to: eligibility for dependents, unrestricted major choice, applicability to four-year degrees, and more generous yearly maximums). > "This is the kind of stuff that needs to be kept in mind to understand why Bessemer residents don’t all see Amazon as evil." I never said anything about Amazon being evil, or whether Bessemer residents see Amazon as evil. In fact, if you look at my posting history, I've been very upfront that I am an employee of Amazon. Further, 'not being evil' and 'providing more then the federal (or state governments)' is a very low bar to cross. It doesn't obviate the need for a union.
• panta 6y ago
  In Europe free healthcare is guaranteed even if you lose your job, and there are essentially no limitations (if you need an expensive treatment, you get it, no matter what).
  • avereveard 6y ago
    > even if Bullshit. In Italy only the lowest income brackets get free healthcare, everyone else has various degree of copay. And even then you get terrible services, with queues several months long for exams and quality far inferior from what you get going trough the private sector. And when I worked and lived in Dublin, same story, I had to pay 270€ for using emergency services at a public hospital and was lucky to have them covered by the private insurance my employer provided.
    • panta 6y ago
      In Italy copay is very limited, almost symbolic, even for those in the highest income brackets. As you point out wait times can be (very) long for exams (at least when there is no indication of urgency), but for serious/complex procedures the quality is way higher in the public sector than in the private one.
      • avereveard 6y ago
        Bullshit. Plenty procedures aren't even covered, as soon as you're slightly out of the commonest procedures and you want some quality healthcare you're going to pay, and part yourself from thousands euros. Proper dental procedures, substitutive hormone therapy, plenty rate stuff require specialists or medicines that mutua doesn't pass. heck if you have a condition that require a specialist during pregnancy you're going to have to pay everything out of your money to avoid the random ginecologist rotation, to the tune of 120€+/visit, and you're going to need ten or more if any complication arises. This is the typical uninformed comment from some ableist that never actually had to suffer from the Italian healthcare beyond the most basic services.
  • isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
• yourmom2 6y ago
  They don’t have cash for copays and all the other american nonsense so it’s not really the same thing.