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The libertarian ideal of paying people the precise market value of their labor would lead to an awful lot of starving IT workers You could leave out the word "

The libertarian ideal of paying people the precise market value of their labor would lead to an awful lot of starving IT workers You could leave out the word "IT" and still have a good point.

ojbyrne 18y ago
Umm, but aren't most people hired through a labor market? What reasons do you have to believe its not an efficient market?
- pchristensen 18y ago
  The firms that hire them are mediators between the raw market and the labor market. And those firms almost always pay for the expected average productivity for that position. Which leads to ... the Team Compensation issue. http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html
- dpapathanasiou 18y ago
  I'm just describing a phenomenon I've seen at large companies, i.e. 10% of the people do all the work. The other 90% spend their time attending meetings, writing memos, and otherwise looking busy but not actually adding value.
  - ojbyrne 18y ago
    I think that attending meetings and writing memos are work. Startups do eventually grow beyond the startup phase, and nobody has figured out a better way to manage large companies than bureaucracy. Middle managers, memos, interminable meetings...
    - dpapathanasiou 18y ago
      You're right, organization and management are important. It's just that there are so few good managers; at all the large companies where I worked, it was an open secret who was contributing and who was just taking up space. The majority was in the latter category.
      - ojbyrne 18y ago
        A large part of good management is figuring out who is contributing and who is taking up space and taking the required action ;-).
        dpapathanasiou 18y ago
        Unless, of course, you realize that you are one of the needless managers and do everything you can to hold on to your nice salary and benefits...
daniel-cussen 18y ago
Are you sure? Hacking might be all or nothing because the marginal cost of software is zero, but marginal costs in most other industries are a lot higher. Just compare software to working toilet. Selling another copy of software is essentially free. Selling another working toilet is not really free. In the libertarian world you describe, plumbers would have no trouble making a living off the precise market value of their labor. This is especially true for credence goods of all kinds; wages are very similar for different plumbers and mechanics, because nobody pays high prices for high quality (since it's impossible to recognize), and nobody buys the low-priced option because it's perceived (in the absence of other information) of being of lower quality. Your theory is interesting, but not hard and fast.

The libertarian ideal of paying people the precise market value of their labor would lead to an awful lot of starving IT workers You could leave out the word "IT" and still have a good point.

ojbyrne 18y ago

Umm, but aren't most people hired through a labor market? What reasons do you have to believe its not an efficient market?

pchristensen 18y ago
The firms that hire them are mediators between the raw market and the labor market. And those firms almost always pay for the expected average productivity for that position. Which leads to ... the Team Compensation issue. http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html
dpapathanasiou 18y ago
I'm just describing a phenomenon I've seen at large companies, i.e. 10% of the people do all the work. The other 90% spend their time attending meetings, writing memos, and otherwise looking busy but not actually adding value.
- ojbyrne 18y ago
  I think that attending meetings and writing memos are work. Startups do eventually grow beyond the startup phase, and nobody has figured out a better way to manage large companies than bureaucracy. Middle managers, memos, interminable meetings...
  - dpapathanasiou 18y ago
    You're right, organization and management are important. It's just that there are so few good managers; at all the large companies where I worked, it was an open secret who was contributing and who was just taking up space. The majority was in the latter category.
    - ojbyrne 18y ago
      A large part of good management is figuring out who is contributing and who is taking up space and taking the required action ;-).
      - dpapathanasiou 18y ago
        Unless, of course, you realize that you are one of the needless managers and do everything you can to hold on to your nice salary and benefits...

daniel-cussen 18y ago

Are you sure? Hacking might be all or nothing because the marginal cost of software is zero, but marginal costs in most other industries are a lot higher. Just compare software to working toilet. Selling another copy of software is essentially free. Selling another working toilet is not really free. In the libertarian world you describe, plumbers would have no trouble making a living off the precise market value of their labor. This is especially true for credence goods of all kinds; wages are very similar for different plumbers and mechanics, because nobody pays high prices for high quality (since it's impossible to recognize), and nobody buys the low-priced option because it's perceived (in the absence of other information) of being of lower quality. Your theory is interesting, but not hard and fast.