5 ms·

A lot of unions ended up being just another means for the mafia to steal from the poor, skimming off the top of pensions funds and the like. Similar corruption

by mjfl 6y ago

A lot of unions ended up being just another means for the mafia to steal from the poor, skimming off the top of pensions funds and the like. Similar corruption exists today. It is inevitable.

atat7024 6y ago
Which shark do you trust to protect you?
- jhbadger 6y ago
  The one you can vote for leadership. Unions are imperfect, but they are democracies. Corporations on the other hand are feudal. You don't get to vote Bezos into power as a worker -- he's just the lord of the manor. Some nobles are good and some nobles are bad, but the serfs have no say.
  - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
    I hate how the term privilege is thrown around these days, but man, this bizarre narrative reeks of privilege and some marxist fantasy. Bezos is in his position because of his competency. He built the thing. Democracy is not a virtue in a workplace.
    - jhbadger 6y ago
      When people say a CEO "built" their company, I'm reminded of when people say the Pharoh Kufu "built" the Great Pyramid. It kind of ignores the people who did the actual work. He's the CEO because he had a lot of money from Wall Street and could hire his staff. He was never tested on his competency. The real world is not a meritocracy.
      - mjfl 6y ago
        The employees of Amazon have never been slaves and the comparison is disingenuous. Saying he was never tested on his competency is ridiculous. There were literally millions of people in the USA richer than Bezos at the time he started Amazon. There are many people on Wall Street who were *orders of magnitude* richer than Bezos that tried to start internet companies that crashed and burned.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - warkdarrior 6y ago
        > [Bezos] was never tested on his competency. This is extremely naive. There are lots of failed CEOs and failed companies. Amazon survived AND grew over 20 years while actively fighting off competition from Walmart, Google, etc.
        jhbadger 6y ago
        But luck is a major factor in this. If in ten years, Amazon tanks, history will say Bezos was a bad CEO. There is never a real demonstration that skill is involved. Some companies win and some companies lose.
        mjfl 6y ago
        In 10 years it's more likely that the US govt will declare bankruptcy than Amazon.
    - koshnaranek 6y ago
      These laws and regulations developed not just randomly but because corporations treated workers almost like slaves.
      - spectramax 6y ago
        Slaves? Like employees are forced to work, they have no choice in the matter, they're chained and cannot leave Amazon? Either you're diluting what Slavery means or proposing the former which is false. Every single employee at Amazon is free to go work for Walmart, Uber, local lumber yard, grocery stores or whatever.
  - musingsole 6y ago
    > but they are democracies I really don't like democracy mixing with my business. It's the best, terrible system we have for when we have no other choice but to come to a mutual decision. But it really should be your last option.
    - claudiawerner 6y ago
      I'm not sure why it should be my last option. There are several problems with autocratic leadership, one of which is that many times, the whims of the autocrat are fundamentally at odds with the good of the people he manages.
      - musingsole 6y ago
        Many times, maybe, but I suppose I'm arguing it's a corner case. Perhaps that those power structures are so natural to us implies just how successful they've been in our history. And not in the sense that fear is a good motivator, but because the reality is that most principals aren't all that far removed from their agents.
objclxt 6y ago
> Similar corruption exists today. It is inevitable. OK, so if it's inevitably why hasn't this happened to the creative unions in Hollywood like SAG, WGA, the DGA, and the PGA?
- musingsole 6y ago
  Are...are you holding up Hollywood as an example of pure, legal employee protections? You know, the industry largely stood up by largescale money laundering schemes?

by mjfl 6y ago

A lot of unions ended up being just another means for the mafia to steal from the poor, skimming off the top of pensions funds and the like. Similar corruption exists today. It is inevitable.

atat7024 6y ago

Which shark do you trust to protect you?

jhbadger 6y ago
The one you can vote for leadership. Unions are imperfect, but they are democracies. Corporations on the other hand are feudal. You don't get to vote Bezos into power as a worker -- he's just the lord of the manor. Some nobles are good and some nobles are bad, but the serfs have no say.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  I hate how the term privilege is thrown around these days, but man, this bizarre narrative reeks of privilege and some marxist fantasy. Bezos is in his position because of his competency. He built the thing. Democracy is not a virtue in a workplace.
  - jhbadger 6y ago
    When people say a CEO "built" their company, I'm reminded of when people say the Pharoh Kufu "built" the Great Pyramid. It kind of ignores the people who did the actual work. He's the CEO because he had a lot of money from Wall Street and could hire his staff. He was never tested on his competency. The real world is not a meritocracy.
    - mjfl 6y ago
      The employees of Amazon have never been slaves and the comparison is disingenuous. Saying he was never tested on his competency is ridiculous. There were literally millions of people in the USA richer than Bezos at the time he started Amazon. There are many people on Wall Street who were *orders of magnitude* richer than Bezos that tried to start internet companies that crashed and burned.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - warkdarrior 6y ago
      > [Bezos] was never tested on his competency. This is extremely naive. There are lots of failed CEOs and failed companies. Amazon survived AND grew over 20 years while actively fighting off competition from Walmart, Google, etc.
      - jhbadger 6y ago
        But luck is a major factor in this. If in ten years, Amazon tanks, history will say Bezos was a bad CEO. There is never a real demonstration that skill is involved. Some companies win and some companies lose.
        mjfl 6y ago
        In 10 years it's more likely that the US govt will declare bankruptcy than Amazon.
  - koshnaranek 6y ago
    These laws and regulations developed not just randomly but because corporations treated workers almost like slaves.
    - spectramax 6y ago
      Slaves? Like employees are forced to work, they have no choice in the matter, they're chained and cannot leave Amazon? Either you're diluting what Slavery means or proposing the former which is false. Every single employee at Amazon is free to go work for Walmart, Uber, local lumber yard, grocery stores or whatever.
- musingsole 6y ago
  > but they are democracies I really don't like democracy mixing with my business. It's the best, terrible system we have for when we have no other choice but to come to a mutual decision. But it really should be your last option.
  - claudiawerner 6y ago
    I'm not sure why it should be my last option. There are several problems with autocratic leadership, one of which is that many times, the whims of the autocrat are fundamentally at odds with the good of the people he manages.
    - musingsole 6y ago
      Many times, maybe, but I suppose I'm arguing it's a corner case. Perhaps that those power structures are so natural to us implies just how successful they've been in our history. And not in the sense that fear is a good motivator, but because the reality is that most principals aren't all that far removed from their agents.

objclxt 6y ago

> Similar corruption exists today. It is inevitable. OK, so if it's inevitably why hasn't this happened to the creative unions in Hollywood like SAG, WGA, the DGA, and the PGA?

musingsole 6y ago
Are...are you holding up Hollywood as an example of pure, legal employee protections? You know, the industry largely stood up by largescale money laundering schemes?