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There are some serious gotchas like nix-env in this read I would like to delete. But, that said, I don't think targeting "drive by usesr" is worth it. The bene

There are some serious gotchas like nix-env in this read I would like to delete. But, that said, I don't think targeting "drive by usesr" is worth it. The benefits of Nix is that it dramatically organizes the absolute disgusting mess that is how most people manage their computer. I don't want to drive people trying things out away, but Nix will never be worth it unless you embrace it, and half-ways usage will deliver all the downsides without enough of the upsides. Not every value function is monotonic like that, I am not going to pretend it's otherwise. The goal is to help people fully embrace it, not to allow them to comfortably come to a stand-still half way.

ben0x539 6y ago
I've used NixOS at home since like 2016. While I haven't used it professionally or for "serious" enthusiast deployments, I don't think I can claim to be a drive-by user. I still insist on using nix-env because it's what all the first-party manuals tell me to do and I don't want to get into a situation where I am experiencing huge pain and the first-party people all tell me "well, that's on you for doing things in a different way". At least my impression from a while ago is that the actual documentation Nix has seems to be aimed at "drive-by" or at least casusal/entry-level users, and to get the deeper insights that make the whole thing enjoyable, you need to give up on the documentation and just absorb all the details from github discussions, through extensive trial&error, etc.
- Ericson2314 6y ago
  Yeah people say the docs are unapproachable, but I agree the docs are too much "here is how to do a bunch of random things" and not enough systematically describing what Nix is. Reference first, then tutorials.
  - oblio 6y ago
    That's not how humans work. Good tutorials first, reference second.
thomastjeffery 6y ago
Organizing that mess should make every user a casual user, serious it not?
- Ericson2314 6y ago
  hmm? Genuinely unsure what you mean.
  - thomastjeffery 6y ago
    The word serious was meant to be should. My phone keyboard picked the wrong word, and I waited too long to edit.

ben0x539 6y ago

I've used NixOS at home since like 2016. While I haven't used it professionally or for "serious" enthusiast deployments, I don't think I can claim to be a drive-by user. I still insist on using nix-env because it's what all the first-party manuals tell me to do and I don't want to get into a situation where I am experiencing huge pain and the first-party people all tell me "well, that's on you for doing things in a different way". At least my impression from a while ago is that the actual documentation Nix has seems to be aimed at "drive-by" or at least casusal/entry-level users, and to get the deeper insights that make the whole thing enjoyable, you need to give up on the documentation and just absorb all the details from github discussions, through extensive trial&error, etc.

Ericson2314 6y ago
Yeah people say the docs are unapproachable, but I agree the docs are too much "here is how to do a bunch of random things" and not enough systematically describing what Nix is. Reference first, then tutorials.
- oblio 6y ago
  That's not how humans work. Good tutorials first, reference second.

thomastjeffery 6y ago

Organizing that mess should make every user a casual user, serious it not?

Ericson2314 6y ago
hmm? Genuinely unsure what you mean.
- thomastjeffery 6y ago
  The word serious was meant to be should. My phone keyboard picked the wrong word, and I waited too long to edit.