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I think that TFA said it well, if brusquely: > And if you think that XCode, Python, Processing, or the shit soup of HTML/Javascript/CSS are any kind of substit

I think that TFA said it well, if brusquely: > And if you think that XCode, Python, Processing, or the shit soup of HTML/Javascript/CSS are any kind of substitute for HyperCard, then read this post again. The thing that made HyperCard great was that it wasn't very capable. Which made it approachable.

mpweiher 6y ago
Sure, Xcode today isn't a substitute. But Xcode is a large step back from what NeXTstep had, at least when it comes to this kind of capability. The standalone Interface Builder had palettes, which you could fill with custom objects. There were third party palettes that allowed non-programmers to click together and configure custom applications for specific domains. There were palettes that extended the whole shebang with scripting languages so that you could also add custom logic in Interface Builder.
- debo_ 6y ago
  I hope that "extended the whole shebang with scripting languages..." was an intentional pun.
- spacedcowboy 6y ago
  That's no different to Xcode. You just need to decorate properties for simple things, and maybe write a setup method or two if you want live-updates (eg to pull a weather map from a server)... Google @IBInspectable and @IBDesignable. Unless you're saying that the most recent versions of Xcode don't do that, which would be news to me. I agree that it's not well-used, but that's not the fault of Xcode. As far as I can tell it provides everything you'd need.
  - mpweiher 6y ago
    I am familiar with IBInspectable and IBDesignable, and have, for example, put my own Smalltalk and Postscript implementations in IB that way. Not the same thing. At all. Not even close. Palettes were final-packaged components that were at the same level as pre-built ones. IBDesignable is a way for adding some interactivity to the views you are creating for an app while you're building said app. Like SwiftUI Previews. And it works about as well, that is not really at all. With IBDesignable, Xcode was continually trying to build the entire dependency tree, meaning for example the entire Postscript interpreter. And failing >50% of the time, which then kills your view. I hear the same happens with SwiftUI previews once your project gets bigger. It certainly happened to me almost immediately when I was trying it out. Again, they're not even close.
Wistar 6y ago
Although it was capable of Myst.
ajuc 6y ago
> Which made it approachable. And still WWW had orders of magnitude more users almost immediately. Hypercard is only easier to learn than "regular" programming languages if you're English speaker.
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  I think that that point actually supports the gist of the argument. In 1995, putting together a website was easier than using Hypercard. And so people flocked to it. Even people who were already somewhat familiar with Hypercard. Even though, at the time, Hypercard was largely more powerful. Some of that was because the Web made it so much easier to share. But I don't think that's the whole story. Fast forward 25 years, and the Web has become much more powerful, but the number of people making websites recreationally who don't also get paid to write software seems to have dropped precipitously.

mpweiher 6y ago

Sure, Xcode today isn't a substitute. But Xcode is a large step back from what NeXTstep had, at least when it comes to this kind of capability. The standalone Interface Builder had palettes, which you could fill with custom objects. There were third party palettes that allowed non-programmers to click together and configure custom applications for specific domains. There were palettes that extended the whole shebang with scripting languages so that you could also add custom logic in Interface Builder.

debo_ 6y ago
I hope that "extended the whole shebang with scripting languages..." was an intentional pun.
spacedcowboy 6y ago
That's no different to Xcode. You just need to decorate properties for simple things, and maybe write a setup method or two if you want live-updates (eg to pull a weather map from a server)... Google @IBInspectable and @IBDesignable. Unless you're saying that the most recent versions of Xcode don't do that, which would be news to me. I agree that it's not well-used, but that's not the fault of Xcode. As far as I can tell it provides everything you'd need.
- mpweiher 6y ago
  I am familiar with IBInspectable and IBDesignable, and have, for example, put my own Smalltalk and Postscript implementations in IB that way. Not the same thing. At all. Not even close. Palettes were final-packaged components that were at the same level as pre-built ones. IBDesignable is a way for adding some interactivity to the views you are creating for an app while you're building said app. Like SwiftUI Previews. And it works about as well, that is not really at all. With IBDesignable, Xcode was continually trying to build the entire dependency tree, meaning for example the entire Postscript interpreter. And failing >50% of the time, which then kills your view. I hear the same happens with SwiftUI previews once your project gets bigger. It certainly happened to me almost immediately when I was trying it out. Again, they're not even close.

Wistar 6y ago

Although it was capable of Myst.

ajuc 6y ago

> Which made it approachable. And still WWW had orders of magnitude more users almost immediately. Hypercard is only easier to learn than "regular" programming languages if you're English speaker.

mumblemumble 6y ago
I think that that point actually supports the gist of the argument. In 1995, putting together a website was easier than using Hypercard. And so people flocked to it. Even people who were already somewhat familiar with Hypercard. Even though, at the time, Hypercard was largely more powerful. Some of that was because the Web made it so much easier to share. But I don't think that's the whole story. Fast forward 25 years, and the Web has become much more powerful, but the number of people making websites recreationally who don't also get paid to write software seems to have dropped precipitously.