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The Queen isn't just the head of the armed forces - they swear an oath of loyalty directly to the Monarch... Interestingly (to me, anyways) is the oath is made

The Queen isn't just the head of the armed forces - they swear an oath of loyalty directly to the Monarch... Interestingly (to me, anyways) is the oath is made directly to Queen Elizabeth by name, not to the crown in general. And isn't made by officers in the Royal Navy, because the navy wasn't created by act of Parliament, but by royal prerogative, so their fealty is assumed.

speed_spread 6y ago
That's very the definition of a regent: no institution is above it. The current Queen of England _is_ the crown. They are one and the same.
- tialaramex 6y ago
  Liz isn't the Crown. This principle was established long ago when one of her predecessors was tried, found guilty, and executed, for treason. It would obviously be impossible for the Crown to commit treason, but the monarch is just a person, and people do crimes. Also far from no institution being "above" it the Parliament is sovereign and so it can, and has, dissolved the monarchy entirely if it wants to. The reason the UK has a monarchy today is that parliament decided it didn't like it better without one (puritans suck, basically they hate fun, if you're American you may have noticed this already)
elliekelly 6y ago
> [T]he oath is made directly to Queen Elizabeth by name, not to the crown in general. So when a monarch dies does everyone in the armed forces take a new oath?
- alistairSH 6y ago
  The actual oath is something like "I swear ... to Queen Elizabeth, and her heirs, ..." I ASSuMEd the oath would more like "I swear ... to the Crown ..." But, if the Queen is in fact the Crown (as stated by a different response), then I suppose it's a distinction without a difference.
  - alistairSH 6y ago
    Not sure why the downvotes, the actual oath is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_Kingdom)#Armed_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_Kin... I don't think I misrepresented it in any way.
    - PraetorianGourd 6y ago
      You are getting down-voted, most likely, because of your "ASSuMEd" comment. It doesn't add to the conversation and detracts from what you were saying.
EliRivers 6y ago
I certainly never gave any such oath when I joined (navy), but I've got a feeling the new joiners these days do declare some kind of oath. Might have signed the official secrets act but I bet they've long since lost it; the paperwork was all over the place at that time. Not that the oath is needed, obviously. If BoJo (or any other such government apparatchik) told me to do something I'd tell him to shove it; if HRH issued a lawful order, well, fair enough your Majesty, I'll see what I can do. Had lunch with her back in 2003 or thereabouts, and a free lunch is always welcome.
myrandomcomment 6y ago
It is worth noting that when the Queen passes, parliament will be called back in to session, if it is not already, and each minister will retake their oath swearing allegiance to the new King.

speed_spread 6y ago

That's very the definition of a regent: no institution is above it. The current Queen of England _is_ the crown. They are one and the same.

tialaramex 6y ago
Liz isn't the Crown. This principle was established long ago when one of her predecessors was tried, found guilty, and executed, for treason. It would obviously be impossible for the Crown to commit treason, but the monarch is just a person, and people do crimes. Also far from no institution being "above" it the Parliament is sovereign and so it can, and has, dissolved the monarchy entirely if it wants to. The reason the UK has a monarchy today is that parliament decided it didn't like it better without one (puritans suck, basically they hate fun, if you're American you may have noticed this already)

elliekelly 6y ago

> [T]he oath is made directly to Queen Elizabeth by name, not to the crown in general. So when a monarch dies does everyone in the armed forces take a new oath?

alistairSH 6y ago
The actual oath is something like "I swear ... to Queen Elizabeth, and her heirs, ..." I ASSuMEd the oath would more like "I swear ... to the Crown ..." But, if the Queen is in fact the Crown (as stated by a different response), then I suppose it's a distinction without a difference.
- alistairSH 6y ago
  Not sure why the downvotes, the actual oath is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_Kingdom)#Armed_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_Kin... I don't think I misrepresented it in any way.
  - PraetorianGourd 6y ago
    You are getting down-voted, most likely, because of your "ASSuMEd" comment. It doesn't add to the conversation and detracts from what you were saying.

EliRivers 6y ago

I certainly never gave any such oath when I joined (navy), but I've got a feeling the new joiners these days do declare some kind of oath. Might have signed the official secrets act but I bet they've long since lost it; the paperwork was all over the place at that time. Not that the oath is needed, obviously. If BoJo (or any other such government apparatchik) told me to do something I'd tell him to shove it; if HRH issued a lawful order, well, fair enough your Majesty, I'll see what I can do. Had lunch with her back in 2003 or thereabouts, and a free lunch is always welcome.

myrandomcomment 6y ago

It is worth noting that when the Queen passes, parliament will be called back in to session, if it is not already, and each minister will retake their oath swearing allegiance to the new King.