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One thing I've been asking myself is how much fresh meat gets thrown out from western supermarkets because of expiration. It might be possible to reduce a lot o

One thing I've been asking myself is how much fresh meat gets thrown out from western supermarkets because of expiration. It might be possible to reduce a lot of waste simply by requiring meat to always be sold as frozen.

loceng 5y ago
Or aligning capitalism with society, so a grocery store who buys meat cheaper in order to sell it at a higher price than most of the the market is willing to pay get penalized via including externalized costs of them having to throw it out instead of sell it; just one possible option out of many that would improve the system and reduce waste near to zero.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
bluGill 5y ago
yuck. Frozen meat has a different texture and is not a substitute except in emergencies. Though if you are not for cooking yourself you probably have enough other bad things happening in your food chain that you cannot tell the difference.
- anjellow 5y ago
  This depends on how the meat is frozen. Frozen meat can be more fresh in texture than chilled meat when flash frozen and dethawed immediately before use. The process of slowly freezing food alters the chemical structure, while flash freezing maintains this structure and subsequently the mouth feel and flavor of fresh meat/produce.
  - djrogers 5y ago
    > The process of slowly freezing food alters the chemical structure It's not the chemical structure, it's the physical structure. Slow freezing causes large (relatively) ice crystals, which are more likely to break cell walls than smaller ice crystals. Those broken cell walls result in more moisture loss when cooking, and a different texture when thawed.
    - User23 5y ago
      And the difference is striking. I had some steaks from a freshly slaughtered cow not too long ago and despite being at best choice grade it tasted better than some prime steaks I’ve had.
    - bob_theslob646 5y ago
      What about vacuum sealing? Does that make a difference?
- em500 5y ago
  In Europe, supermarket meat was was probably frozen anyway, according to Dutch Consumer Reports: ("Fresh" meat from supermarket often older than 2 years and frozen several times [1], original Dutch [2]). [1] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://neerlander.nl/2016/09/07/vers-vlees-supermarkt-vaak-ouder-dan-2-jaar-en-meerdere-keren-ingevroren/ https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://... [2] http://neerlander.nl/2016/09/07/vers-vlees-supermarkt-vaak-ouder-dan-2-jaar-en-meerdere-keren-ingevroren/ http://neerlander.nl/2016/09/07/vers-vlees-supermarkt-vaak-o...
  - aszantu 5y ago
    local turk assured me the meat was fresh, but it aged weirdly when I let it sit for a few days, so I switched over to another butcher and e'voila, nice agey taste
- leetcrew 5y ago
  it's noticeably different, but it's not that bad. I often freeze the other half of an NY strip. a 14-18oz piece of meat is a bit much for me to eat in one sitting. it doesn't make much difference with a whole foods tier steak, but I wouldn't do it with a really nice cut from my local butcher. agree that requiring all meat to be sold frozen is a step too far though. adding a tax somewhere along the meat production chain to account for the externalities would be a better solution.
- codebolt 5y ago
  Frozen meat is perfectly fine, I use it all the time. And even if it wasn't, should we really sacrifice the environment for the sake of our tastebuds?
  - pcthrowaway 5y ago
    Funny you should say that, it's one of the core reasons many vegans and environmentalists advocate for avoiding meat altogether, as it disproportionately contributes to environmental impact. Turns out growing plants to feed to animals, and then growing those animals to feed to humans is less efficient than growing plants to feed to humans.
    - codebolt 5y ago
      I can sympathize with that argument. But the way humans raised animals prior to the last century seems a lot less problematic. If we reverted to a more sustainable, regenerative practice of farming, that would surely reduce animal suffering and not damage the environment to anywhere near the same degree. It would also create a lot of jobs. But if you're trying to feed 8 bln people then you will need to figure out ways to reduce waste in the supply chain. Like freezing meat.

loceng 5y ago

Or aligning capitalism with society, so a grocery store who buys meat cheaper in order to sell it at a higher price than most of the the market is willing to pay get penalized via including externalized costs of them having to throw it out instead of sell it; just one possible option out of many that would improve the system and reduce waste near to zero.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

bluGill 5y ago

yuck. Frozen meat has a different texture and is not a substitute except in emergencies. Though if you are not for cooking yourself you probably have enough other bad things happening in your food chain that you cannot tell the difference.

anjellow 5y ago
This depends on how the meat is frozen. Frozen meat can be more fresh in texture than chilled meat when flash frozen and dethawed immediately before use. The process of slowly freezing food alters the chemical structure, while flash freezing maintains this structure and subsequently the mouth feel and flavor of fresh meat/produce.
- djrogers 5y ago
  > The process of slowly freezing food alters the chemical structure It's not the chemical structure, it's the physical structure. Slow freezing causes large (relatively) ice crystals, which are more likely to break cell walls than smaller ice crystals. Those broken cell walls result in more moisture loss when cooking, and a different texture when thawed.
  - User23 5y ago
    And the difference is striking. I had some steaks from a freshly slaughtered cow not too long ago and despite being at best choice grade it tasted better than some prime steaks I’ve had.
  - bob_theslob646 5y ago
    What about vacuum sealing? Does that make a difference?
em500 5y ago
In Europe, supermarket meat was was probably frozen anyway, according to Dutch Consumer Reports: ("Fresh" meat from supermarket often older than 2 years and frozen several times [1], original Dutch [2]). [1] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://neerlander.nl/2016/09/07/vers-vlees-supermarkt-vaak-ouder-dan-2-jaar-en-meerdere-keren-ingevroren/ https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://... [2] http://neerlander.nl/2016/09/07/vers-vlees-supermarkt-vaak-ouder-dan-2-jaar-en-meerdere-keren-ingevroren/ http://neerlander.nl/2016/09/07/vers-vlees-supermarkt-vaak-o...
- aszantu 5y ago
  local turk assured me the meat was fresh, but it aged weirdly when I let it sit for a few days, so I switched over to another butcher and e'voila, nice agey taste
leetcrew 5y ago
it's noticeably different, but it's not that bad. I often freeze the other half of an NY strip. a 14-18oz piece of meat is a bit much for me to eat in one sitting. it doesn't make much difference with a whole foods tier steak, but I wouldn't do it with a really nice cut from my local butcher. agree that requiring all meat to be sold frozen is a step too far though. adding a tax somewhere along the meat production chain to account for the externalities would be a better solution.
codebolt 5y ago
Frozen meat is perfectly fine, I use it all the time. And even if it wasn't, should we really sacrifice the environment for the sake of our tastebuds?
- pcthrowaway 5y ago
  Funny you should say that, it's one of the core reasons many vegans and environmentalists advocate for avoiding meat altogether, as it disproportionately contributes to environmental impact. Turns out growing plants to feed to animals, and then growing those animals to feed to humans is less efficient than growing plants to feed to humans.
  - codebolt 5y ago
    I can sympathize with that argument. But the way humans raised animals prior to the last century seems a lot less problematic. If we reverted to a more sustainable, regenerative practice of farming, that would surely reduce animal suffering and not damage the environment to anywhere near the same degree. It would also create a lot of jobs. But if you're trying to feed 8 bln people then you will need to figure out ways to reduce waste in the supply chain. Like freezing meat.