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> Are you suggesting that we switch to TUIs/CLIs on touch interfaces? If not, what's your solution? My solution is that touch interfaces are a bad design in th

> Are you suggesting that we switch to TUIs/CLIs on touch interfaces? If not, what's your solution? My solution is that touch interfaces are a bad design in the first place. They're significantly less accessible to people with disabilities. They present a lot more problems with feedback about which buttons you're _about_ to press. And they're ficking obnoxious because everyone and their marketing team wants a completely different interface so nothing is ever consistent even on the "same" operating system. > For example? Example 1: download one file from a url mentioned somewhere curl -fLsS "$(query for url)" -o ~/Downloads/file Example 2: download a bunch of PDF files cat ./file | grep -P '\.pdf$' | while read -r url; do curl -fLsS "${url}" -o ~/Downloads/"$(basename "${url}")"; done Example 2: move all PDFs that I just downloaded: mv ~/Downloads/*.pdf /path/to/pdfs Example 3: find what text file(s) have some text grep -nRIiw "magic" /path/with/content Example 4: find what pdf file(s) have some text find /path/to/pdfs -iname '*.pdf' -exec pdfgrep "magic" {} + Example 5: compare filenames in the two sets: sort <(grep -lRIiw "magic" /path/with/content | while read -r path; do basename "${path}" .txt; done) <(pdfgrep -l "magic" /path/to/pdfs | while read -r path; do basename "${path}" .pdf; done) | uniq And now, I have accepted a file from a team member which describes URLs to PDF reports with magic. I have generated a one-off report describing which files have magic content that needs to be reviewed because it contains magic that's described in in a local database. How about generating a git-diff, encrypting it, and emailing it? cat <(echo Subject: diff for the work you needed) <(gpg -a -u inetknght -r recipient -o - -e <(git diff new..old)) | sendmail recipient ... Okay so those one-off things are complex things. How about simple things? Example 6: move a file. mv ~/Downloads/foo ~/Documents/ Example 7: open a file xdg-open file Example 8: delete a file rm file Example 9: mount a thumb drive mount /dev/device /mnt/filesystem Example 10: unmount a thumb drive umount /mnt/filesystem Example 11: shutdown, and don't let any bad app stop the shutdown systemctl poweroff --force All of these are IMO easier than in a GUI

adwn 6y ago
> My solution is that touch interfaces are a bad design in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I also hate touch interfaces, for all the reasons you mentioned. But saying they're "bad design" is not a solution – it's a starting point at best. What alternative are you suggesting for smartphone-sized devices? Mobile phones did have physical buttons, but once touchscreen-only devices came out, customers voted with their money. So much so, in fact, that smartphones with a physical keyboard are a tiny niche today. That's because keyboards just don't work well with small devices. Using a CLI with a smartphone keyboard would be an awful experience.
duckmysick 6y ago
It certainly is easier for you or me, but not for an average person. Let's look at the command names. find, sort, and even mount are ok. curl? Does it have anything to do with curling? cat? What do cats have to do with files? Oh, it's because I'm using a mouse, isn't it. mv? Why not move? Or going back to previous examples, why not fnd or srt? Consistency is important and you don't want users to guess. grep, xdg-open, and systemctl are just random letters for most. And that's just those who can speak English. If someone doesn't, it's just nonsense for them. > One has to be trained to right-click. One has to be trained to understand which commands exist and what do they do. I can't imagine someone without any training typing `grep -nRIiw`. Sure, you can look it up in the manual, but that's the thing - you shouldn't. You should consult the manual when you're using something for the first time or something isn't working. I can pick up any vacuum cleaner or get in a rental car and start operating them right away. I have to look up how flag works with different CLI apps. I shouldn't have to. Good design should be obvious. That's why we're not typing `systemctl poweroff --force` to turn off a TV, we just press a button on a remote. And I can pick up remotes from other TV sets and turn them off without looking up their manuals. > nothing is ever consistent even on the "same" operating system. Funny you mention that. I tried some of your commands. Turns out, I don't have systemctl or pdfgrep installed. So much for consistency.

adwn 6y ago

> My solution is that touch interfaces are a bad design in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I also hate touch interfaces, for all the reasons you mentioned. But saying they're "bad design" is not a solution – it's a starting point at best. What alternative are you suggesting for smartphone-sized devices? Mobile phones did have physical buttons, but once touchscreen-only devices came out, customers voted with their money. So much so, in fact, that smartphones with a physical keyboard are a tiny niche today. That's because keyboards just don't work well with small devices. Using a CLI with a smartphone keyboard would be an awful experience.

duckmysick 6y ago

It certainly is easier for you or me, but not for an average person. Let's look at the command names. find, sort, and even mount are ok. curl? Does it have anything to do with curling? cat? What do cats have to do with files? Oh, it's because I'm using a mouse, isn't it. mv? Why not move? Or going back to previous examples, why not fnd or srt? Consistency is important and you don't want users to guess. grep, xdg-open, and systemctl are just random letters for most. And that's just those who can speak English. If someone doesn't, it's just nonsense for them. > One has to be trained to right-click. One has to be trained to understand which commands exist and what do they do. I can't imagine someone without any training typing `grep -nRIiw`. Sure, you can look it up in the manual, but that's the thing - you shouldn't. You should consult the manual when you're using something for the first time or something isn't working. I can pick up any vacuum cleaner or get in a rental car and start operating them right away. I have to look up how flag works with different CLI apps. I shouldn't have to. Good design should be obvious. That's why we're not typing `systemctl poweroff --force` to turn off a TV, we just press a button on a remote. And I can pick up remotes from other TV sets and turn them off without looking up their manuals. > nothing is ever consistent even on the "same" operating system. Funny you mention that. I tried some of your commands. Turns out, I don't have systemctl or pdfgrep installed. So much for consistency.