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Will this have an impact of tools that depend on linux like docker on mac? Maybe android emulation? If so, then I'm super excited for it. I'm using an m1 macbo

Will this have an impact of tools that depend on linux like docker on mac? Maybe android emulation? If so, then I'm super excited for it. I'm using an m1 macbook air right now and it's the first compelling mac laptop for me since 2015. It's absolutely amazing. But for any workload that uses docker, my linux desktop is streets ahead.

fulafel 6y ago
Yep, you can now run Docker natively without a virtual machine.
- stepbeek 6y ago
  I think it'll still be a virtual machine? It'll just mean that there could be an ARM native virtual machine rather than one emulating x86.
  - fulafel 6y ago
    The secret to the lightweight nature of Docker is that it just uses various namespacing, cgroup etc functionality provided by Linux with no virtualized OS kernel or hw virtualization mechanisms involved. (Yep you need ARM Docker images when running on ARM of course)
    - kelnos 6y ago
      Do we really expect to see many Docker images published that are compiled for ARM? Sure, I expect to see base OS images, but I'd find it hard to believe that many people are going to take the time to cross-build and publish an arm64 version of their container image alongside their x86_64 version. I guess to some extent that might be generally useful, what with things like AWS's Graviton ARM processors, but I expect it'll take a while.
      - fulafel 6y ago
        Most people build their own images using CI/CD to their own registries when using containers in production [1]. You don't really otherwise know what is in them. And for on-laptop hacking it's just a docker build command. [1]Especially now that public docker hub is ip rate limited to uselessness.
      - cpmsmith 6y ago
        Anecdotally, we already do see a substantial number. Far from 100%, but many of the most popular images on Docker Hub are already multi-arch. The most notable exception is the Docker-maintained MySQL image, but Oracle maintains another which works fine on ARM.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - nicoburns 6y ago
      It does on linux. On macOS and windows it does still do this... but in a linux VM.
      - fulafel 6y ago
        Yep. Linux gaining HW support for the M1, and Docker on your penguinized mac, was the context I thought.
    - thomaslord 6y ago
      Wouldn't Docker still need a VM for Linux containers on any non-Linux OS? My understanding is that it uses the host's kernel, so running it on macOS would always require a VM.
rvz 6y ago
Last time I checked, the Android Emulator running on Apple Silicon still has issues and isn't functionally as good as running it on an Intel Mac. There is no point in getting the M1 Macbook (which is last year's model) since they will either announce a M1X or even a M2 Macbook this year which will most certainly be more performant and optimised than the last generation. One of the several reasons why I stayed away from the first generation of Apple Silicon Macs, and still the software ecosystem is still unoptimised for it.
- rvz 6y ago
  Downvoters: So this is not true? Time to cut through the hype. From [0] (From Preview) Known issues: Webview doesn't work No sound No device skins Video codecs not working 32 bit ARM apps won't work Graphical glitches in some Vulkan apps Popup on startup about not being able to find the ADB path (ADB will still notice the emulator if you have it installed though) When building, it may be faster to start then cancel the Python triggered build and then reissue ninja -C objs install/strip versus letting the Python triggered build finish. This is not even available in the stable release of Android Studio and is still not production ready. What is the point of using this when it clearly says it has missing functionality and is less functional than the android emulators found on macOS on Intel? Once again, Another thing the M1 Macbook early adopter hype-squad omitted as they are still suffering from a sunken cost while I get a second or third generation Apple Silicon Macbook which will be much more optimised and by then the ecosystem will be better supported out of the box. Now, explain yourself. [0] https://androidstudio.googleblog.com/2020/12/android-emulator-apple-silicon-preview.html https://androidstudio.googleblog.com/2020/12/android-emulato...
  - hu3 6y ago
    I was considering getting an M1 this week to poke around but seeing how things are still broken for my usecase... nevermind.
  - bri3d 6y ago
    Saying "there is no point in getting an M1 MacBook" is probably what's garnering you the downvotes. It's rough around the edges and whether or not your use case is successful is definitely very specific, but for my personal hobby projects (ECU reverse engineering), it's been an excellent tool. Ghidra worked out-of-the-box in Rosetta and natively with a few simple build system tweaks, tricore-qemu was trivial to build, Mono is working, VSCode is nicer than ever, and CrossOver Wine (in Rosetta) even works great for running Windows-only toolchains. The battery life and performance-to-price ratio on the Air have been amazing. And, some things like GMP are _ridiculously_ fast - a brute-force RNG -> RSA attack I developed is actually faster on the M1 MacBook Air than on my not-that-old Ryzen desktop. I agree that the hype is tiring, and yes, some things like Android development don't work correctly yet - but not everyone is an Android developer, and dismissing the first-gen Apple Silicon products in a blanket way goes against the experience of many people. Thus, downvotes.

fulafel 6y ago

Yep, you can now run Docker natively without a virtual machine.

stepbeek 6y ago
I think it'll still be a virtual machine? It'll just mean that there could be an ARM native virtual machine rather than one emulating x86.
- fulafel 6y ago
  The secret to the lightweight nature of Docker is that it just uses various namespacing, cgroup etc functionality provided by Linux with no virtualized OS kernel or hw virtualization mechanisms involved. (Yep you need ARM Docker images when running on ARM of course)
  - kelnos 6y ago
    Do we really expect to see many Docker images published that are compiled for ARM? Sure, I expect to see base OS images, but I'd find it hard to believe that many people are going to take the time to cross-build and publish an arm64 version of their container image alongside their x86_64 version. I guess to some extent that might be generally useful, what with things like AWS's Graviton ARM processors, but I expect it'll take a while.
    - fulafel 6y ago
      Most people build their own images using CI/CD to their own registries when using containers in production [1]. You don't really otherwise know what is in them. And for on-laptop hacking it's just a docker build command. [1]Especially now that public docker hub is ip rate limited to uselessness.
    - cpmsmith 6y ago
      Anecdotally, we already do see a substantial number. Far from 100%, but many of the most popular images on Docker Hub are already multi-arch. The most notable exception is the Docker-maintained MySQL image, but Oracle maintains another which works fine on ARM.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    It does on linux. On macOS and windows it does still do this... but in a linux VM.
    - fulafel 6y ago
      Yep. Linux gaining HW support for the M1, and Docker on your penguinized mac, was the context I thought.
  - thomaslord 6y ago
    Wouldn't Docker still need a VM for Linux containers on any non-Linux OS? My understanding is that it uses the host's kernel, so running it on macOS would always require a VM.

rvz 6y ago

Last time I checked, the Android Emulator running on Apple Silicon still has issues and isn't functionally as good as running it on an Intel Mac. There is no point in getting the M1 Macbook (which is last year's model) since they will either announce a M1X or even a M2 Macbook this year which will most certainly be more performant and optimised than the last generation. One of the several reasons why I stayed away from the first generation of Apple Silicon Macs, and still the software ecosystem is still unoptimised for it.

rvz 6y ago
Downvoters: So this is not true? Time to cut through the hype. From [0] (From Preview) Known issues: Webview doesn't work No sound No device skins Video codecs not working 32 bit ARM apps won't work Graphical glitches in some Vulkan apps Popup on startup about not being able to find the ADB path (ADB will still notice the emulator if you have it installed though) When building, it may be faster to start then cancel the Python triggered build and then reissue ninja -C objs install/strip versus letting the Python triggered build finish. This is not even available in the stable release of Android Studio and is still not production ready. What is the point of using this when it clearly says it has missing functionality and is less functional than the android emulators found on macOS on Intel? Once again, Another thing the M1 Macbook early adopter hype-squad omitted as they are still suffering from a sunken cost while I get a second or third generation Apple Silicon Macbook which will be much more optimised and by then the ecosystem will be better supported out of the box. Now, explain yourself. [0] https://androidstudio.googleblog.com/2020/12/android-emulator-apple-silicon-preview.html https://androidstudio.googleblog.com/2020/12/android-emulato...
- hu3 6y ago
  I was considering getting an M1 this week to poke around but seeing how things are still broken for my usecase... nevermind.
- bri3d 6y ago
  Saying "there is no point in getting an M1 MacBook" is probably what's garnering you the downvotes. It's rough around the edges and whether or not your use case is successful is definitely very specific, but for my personal hobby projects (ECU reverse engineering), it's been an excellent tool. Ghidra worked out-of-the-box in Rosetta and natively with a few simple build system tweaks, tricore-qemu was trivial to build, Mono is working, VSCode is nicer than ever, and CrossOver Wine (in Rosetta) even works great for running Windows-only toolchains. The battery life and performance-to-price ratio on the Air have been amazing. And, some things like GMP are _ridiculously_ fast - a brute-force RNG -> RSA attack I developed is actually faster on the M1 MacBook Air than on my not-that-old Ryzen desktop. I agree that the hype is tiring, and yes, some things like Android development don't work correctly yet - but not everyone is an Android developer, and dismissing the first-gen Apple Silicon products in a blanket way goes against the experience of many people. Thus, downvotes.