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The next step for Neuralink is write mode. No, not writing memories, but reprogramming motor function. If you can capture the signals of limb movement synapses

The next step for Neuralink is write mode. No, not writing memories, but reprogramming motor function. If you can capture the signals of limb movement synapses for say, a paraplegic, you can read those signals and convert them into write signals in another part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function. Over time, that neuron pathway gets reinforced and could potentially teach a person how to walk again. It’s exciting stuff and I’m sure there are concerns to be addressed down the line wrt altering perception, but let’s not put the cart before the horse. That would be like worrying about impending AI drones in the 70s.

sangnoir 6y ago
> The next step for Neuralink is write mode. No, not writing memories, but reprogramming motor function. If you can capture the signals of limb movement synapses for say, a paraplegic, you can read those signals and convert them into write signals in another part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function. Over time, that neuron pathway gets reinforced and could potentially teach a person how to walk again. Or - hear me out - for a small bonus, you could volunteer for a second shift in the Amazon warehouse while you sleep. An algorithm right bits to drive your body as you shuffle unevenly from station to station in the dark (no need for lights, the computer knows where things are). They can call it the Neuralink Autopilot. Edit: would it be possible to externally trigger firing of motor neurons in someone who is brain-dead? The future might be a little Ancillary Justice-y, but with a strong "posthumous work contract" capitalist flavor to it.
anonytrary 6y ago
MIT "wrote" memories (the solution to a maze) into mice/rats using photons[0]. Neuralink in "write" mode could be engineered to do the same thing by introducing an EM current that changes over time. In the past, I've worked with "read-only", passive tetrodes, but the opposite is possible from a physics standpoint. Moving charges is just another way of saying "propagating photons". I think there's not only precedent, but there's proof that this can be done. The hard part is figuring out the biology (for a given memory, you still need to calculate the correct I(t) that actually implants it), which is a relatively unexplored domain. Neuralink is centuries away from using "write" mode to turn everyone into Neo, but much simpler use-cases can still make a huge impact within the next couple decades. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jul/25/false-memory-implanted-mouse-brain https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jul/25/false-memory...
klintcho 6y ago
I was about to say that the Link (Neuralink) is already bidirectional, so they should already be able to spike each electron as well as read from it. But I had troubles finding any sources supporting this, so I'm not so sure anymore. I know that Elon talked about this in the early presentations though.
- natosaichek 6y ago
  The implant definitely can write, but it's more power intensive than reading, and lower priority.
knowaveragejoe 6y ago
I know there's a myriad of reasons why people lose the ability to walk, but are there any in which it's a matter of what sounds like memory degradation(i.e. you need to remind a particular set of neurons what they previously "knew")? Total non-expert here and legitimately curious.
- LordDragonfang 6y ago
  Sometimes people with severe brain damage in the motor section can lose the ability to walk, yes, but that can also be solved with traditional physical therapy (brains are amazingly adaptive things, and can even repurpose other sections into motor function). Butlike I said, traditional PT is a much less invasive solution to that, so I have no idea what GP is talking about.
LordDragonfang 6y ago
>you can read those signals and convert them into write signals in another part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function. The signals Neuralink is reading are from the "part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function". I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. I think you may be confused on how the majority of paraplegic and NDG conditions work - it's not that the brain isn't producing the signals, it's that the signals aren't reaching the muscles they need to to create motor function - it's the link that's broken, for a variety of reasons. Of course, the obvious corollary here is reading the signals and using electrodes implanted in the muscles to directly stimulate a contraction
bick_nyers 6y ago
Forgive my ignorance, but after writing to neurons to re-learn walking, will that render that particular Neuralink chip unless? Since the neuron structures surrounding that chip will be constructed for walking, you won't want to further disrupt/write to them. Then you would need to move the chip for any further use? Edit: After reading another comment about the link being broken (hence the name Neuralink), this makes more sense now. Although, I still think that maybe you only get one usage out of one chip? I suppose the definition of "usage" is what is important. Presumably you won't need a chip per joint in a leg, and presumably one chip could control two legs? Or perhaps you get finer control with a chip per leg?

sangnoir 6y ago

> The next step for Neuralink is write mode. No, not writing memories, but reprogramming motor function. If you can capture the signals of limb movement synapses for say, a paraplegic, you can read those signals and convert them into write signals in another part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function. Over time, that neuron pathway gets reinforced and could potentially teach a person how to walk again. Or - hear me out - for a small bonus, you could volunteer for a second shift in the Amazon warehouse while you sleep. An algorithm right bits to drive your body as you shuffle unevenly from station to station in the dark (no need for lights, the computer knows where things are). They can call it the Neuralink Autopilot. Edit: would it be possible to externally trigger firing of motor neurons in someone who is brain-dead? The future might be a little Ancillary Justice-y, but with a strong "posthumous work contract" capitalist flavor to it.

anonytrary 6y ago

MIT "wrote" memories (the solution to a maze) into mice/rats using photons[0]. Neuralink in "write" mode could be engineered to do the same thing by introducing an EM current that changes over time. In the past, I've worked with "read-only", passive tetrodes, but the opposite is possible from a physics standpoint. Moving charges is just another way of saying "propagating photons". I think there's not only precedent, but there's proof that this can be done. The hard part is figuring out the biology (for a given memory, you still need to calculate the correct I(t) that actually implants it), which is a relatively unexplored domain. Neuralink is centuries away from using "write" mode to turn everyone into Neo, but much simpler use-cases can still make a huge impact within the next couple decades. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jul/25/false-memory-implanted-mouse-brain https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jul/25/false-memory...

klintcho 6y ago

I was about to say that the Link (Neuralink) is already bidirectional, so they should already be able to spike each electron as well as read from it. But I had troubles finding any sources supporting this, so I'm not so sure anymore. I know that Elon talked about this in the early presentations though.

natosaichek 6y ago
The implant definitely can write, but it's more power intensive than reading, and lower priority.

knowaveragejoe 6y ago

I know there's a myriad of reasons why people lose the ability to walk, but are there any in which it's a matter of what sounds like memory degradation(i.e. you need to remind a particular set of neurons what they previously "knew")? Total non-expert here and legitimately curious.

LordDragonfang 6y ago
Sometimes people with severe brain damage in the motor section can lose the ability to walk, yes, but that can also be solved with traditional physical therapy (brains are amazingly adaptive things, and can even repurpose other sections into motor function). Butlike I said, traditional PT is a much less invasive solution to that, so I have no idea what GP is talking about.

LordDragonfang 6y ago

>you can read those signals and convert them into write signals in another part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function. The signals Neuralink is reading are from the "part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function". I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. I think you may be confused on how the majority of paraplegic and NDG conditions work - it's not that the brain isn't producing the signals, it's that the signals aren't reaching the muscles they need to to create motor function - it's the link that's broken, for a variety of reasons. Of course, the obvious corollary here is reading the signals and using electrodes implanted in the muscles to directly stimulate a contraction

bick_nyers 6y ago

Forgive my ignorance, but after writing to neurons to re-learn walking, will that render that particular Neuralink chip unless? Since the neuron structures surrounding that chip will be constructed for walking, you won't want to further disrupt/write to them. Then you would need to move the chip for any further use? Edit: After reading another comment about the link being broken (hence the name Neuralink), this makes more sense now. Although, I still think that maybe you only get one usage out of one chip? I suppose the definition of "usage" is what is important. Presumably you won't need a chip per joint in a leg, and presumably one chip could control two legs? Or perhaps you get finer control with a chip per leg?